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Thread: Russian qualifiers and other most important competitions

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueskywhitecloud View Post
    There were young skaters whose names I am not familiar with, such as Ryabova, Tarusina, Vasilyeva, Muhortova, Varina, Diana Davis, Kadyrova, etc... Are these girls too young to participate in this event? If possible, could you also provide information about these girls as well? Russian just has so many talented girls and I want to know and follow their progress from a very young age. Thanks again
    Not too many info about these girls with very few serious competitions.

    Ekaterina Ryabova born at 2003, Moscow, coach Pavel Ryabov, 1st place Zhuk-2014 younger, 6th place Zhuk-2013 younger.
    All five triples, no 3+3 combo (tries 3T+3T). Spins 4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Anna Tarusina born at 2003, Moscow, coach Vladimir Kotin, 2nd place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    4 triples (no 3S). Combo 2A+3T. Spins 2-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Viktoria Vasilyeva born at 2003, Moscow, 3rd place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3Lo, 3F, 3Lz. No 3+3 combo. Spins 1-4 level, StSq 2 level.

    Anastasia Muhortova born at 2003, Moscow, 4th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3T and 3S. No 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Anastasia Varina born at 2003, Moscow, coach Svetlana Panova (coach of Maria Sotskova, who won JGP Final 2013). 5th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3S and 3Lo, no 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Diana Davis born 16 Jan 2003, coach (and also her mother) Eteri Tutberidze (coach of Lipnitskaia, Medvedeva, Tsurskaya, Voronov, Pitkeev). 6th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3T and 3S, no 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Yasmina Kadyrova, born at 2004, Kazan. 7th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3T and 3S, no 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 2-3 level.

    At last five season we see that girls learn complicated elements in younger age.
    At Zhuk-2009 (younger age) first was Elena Radionova (now 2-times World Junior Champion) with only one triple (fall in SP, landed in FS).
    2nd (Pogorilaya, now 4th at Worlds) and 3rd (Shershak, at 2011 silver medalist of JGP Event) had no triples.
    At Zhuk-2009 (younger age) "girl landing 2A" meant high level. Girl landing 2A was 6th Julia Lipnitskaia (now olympic gold medalist and 2nd at Worlds).
    Now top-8 have at least two triples.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    At last five season we see that girls learn complicated elements in younger age.
    At Zhuk-2009 (younger age) first was Elena Radionova (now 2-times World Junior Champion) with only one triple (fall in SP, landed in FS).
    2nd (Pogorilaya, now 4th at Worlds) and 3rd (Shershak, at 2011 silver medalist of JGP Event) had no triples.
    At Zhuk-2009 (younger age) "girl landing 2A" meant high level. Girl landing 2A was 6th Julia Lipnitskaia (now olympic gold medalist and 2nd at Worlds).
    Now top-8 have at least two triples.
    This trend seems to be both in Russian juniors and seniors too. In 2008-2009 when Adelina Sotnikova won the Russian senior nationals the first time, I don't think she had 3-3 in her SP. If you look at the protocols now, nearly all ladies and seniors and juniors have 3-3 in both their programs (and those few who did not have it, they intended to do it but popped it or fell). That's a huge move in skills in six years. In fact, I am surprised that Adelina and Liza have been doing so well (except of Liza's last season) because the coming ladies seem to be relatively much better (they were suddenly expected to have the skills at much younger age). At the time when Adelina won her first title at the nationals, she had no one really to compete against except of Liza. The other competitors were substandard. Now let's say Lipnitskaya and Radionova (and the juniors who are coming after them) had to always fight for their standings with others and did not get anything just by default. They were suddenly expected to have the skills like the harder 3-3, whereas when Adelina and Liza got them it was something special for Russian female skating at that period of time.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Not too many info about these girls with very few serious competitions.

    Ekaterina Ryabova born at 2003, Moscow, coach Pavel Ryabov, 1st place Zhuk-2014 younger, 6th place Zhuk-2013 younger.
    All five triples, no 3+3 combo (tries 3T+3T). Spins 4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Anna Tarusina born at 2003, Moscow, coach Vladimir Kotin, 2nd place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    4 triples (no 3S). Combo 2A+3T. Spins 2-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Viktoria Vasilyeva born at 2003, Moscow, 3rd place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3Lo, 3F, 3Lz. No 3+3 combo. Spins 1-4 level, StSq 2 level.

    Anastasia Muhortova born at 2003, Moscow, 4th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3T and 3S. No 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Anastasia Varina born at 2003, Moscow, coach Svetlana Panova (coach of Maria Sotskova, who won JGP Final 2013). 5th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3S and 3Lo, no 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Diana Davis born 16 Jan 2003, coach (and also her mother) Eteri Tutberidze (coach of Lipnitskaia, Medvedeva, Tsurskaya, Voronov, Pitkeev). 6th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3T and 3S, no 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 3 level.

    Yasmina Kadyrova, born at 2004, Kazan. 7th place Zhuk-2014 younger.
    Triples 3T and 3S, no 3+3 combo. Spins 3-4 level, StSq 2-3 level.

    At last five season we see that girls learn complicated elements in younger age.
    At Zhuk-2009 (younger age) first was Elena Radionova (now 2-times World Junior Champion) with only one triple (fall in SP, landed in FS).
    2nd (Pogorilaya, now 4th at Worlds) and 3rd (Shershak, at 2011 silver medalist of JGP Event) had no triples.
    At Zhuk-2009 (younger age) "girl landing 2A" meant high level. Girl landing 2A was 6th Julia Lipnitskaia (now olympic gold medalist and 2nd at Worlds).
    Now top-8 have at least two triples.
    Thank you so much!

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    This trend seems to be both in Russian juniors and seniors too. In 2008-2009 when Adelina Sotnikova won the Russian senior nationals the first time, I don't think she had 3-3 in her SP. If you look at the protocols now, nearly all ladies and seniors and juniors have 3-3 in both their programs (and those few who did not have it, they intended to do it but popped it or fell). That's a huge move in skills in six years. In fact, I am surprised that Adelina and Liza have been doing so well (except of Liza's last season) because the coming ladies seem to be relatively much better (they were suddenly expected to have the skills at much younger age). At the time when Adelina won her first title at the nationals, she had no one really to compete against except of Liza. The other competitors were substandard. Now let's say Lipnitskaya and Radionova (and the juniors who are coming after them) had to always fight for their standings with others and did not get anything just by default. They were suddenly expected to have the skills like the harder 3-3, whereas when Adelina and Liza got them it was something special for Russian female skating at that period of time.
    Not only Russians, not only female.
    Da Bin Choi and Karen Chen with 3Lz+3T, Vincent Zhou (and Nathan Chen before him).
    Polina Edmunds in her first Senior Internationals (Olympics at the same season when she had first Internationals - what an irony!) landed two 3+3 combos in FS and was the only who did it at Olympics-2014 FS.

    Ando, Asada, Yuna Kim also had very cmplicated content being juniors or even pre-juniors. Russian girls are not the first.
    Now, I believe, we see 2nd generation of technical complexity.
    Yes, Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva started it, but also was Gracie Gold.

  5. #335
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    FS result: http://fsrussia.ru/upl/results/1314/...rta/SEG004.HTM

    huge score for Gubanova

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Protocols http://fsrussia.ru/upl/ckeditor/1728777.pdf
    PCS 6.5 - very high for so young skater (some overscoring, but Gubanova really dererves high PCS for her skating).
    7 triples ad two 2A (repeated 3Lz and 3T), two non-jumping 3 level and two 4 level, only one mistake (3T<< in combo), good PCS, 3 points bonus.

    Anastasia Gubanova is really very talented skater.
    We will see her at Cryskal Skate 25-27 April.
    http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pai...-crystal-skate
    Hope there will be videos.

  7. #337
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    (4T<< in combo)
    Er, it must be 3T<<
    Gubanova is an all-around prodigy indeed, so impressive!
    I know She landed 3F when she was very young, but I think the edge of her 3F is wrong, or at least unclear, though she has never gotten an "e" yet.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreuf View Post
    Er, it must be 3T<<
    Yes, 3T<<. My mistake.

  9. #339
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    First All-Russian Spartakiad of Sport Schools Saransk 16-19 April 2014

    Photos http://news.sportbox.ru/regional_spo...isi-v-Saranske

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    BTW, do you have any info of Lera Evseeva? Did she injure or stop skating?

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreuf View Post
    BTW, do you have any info of Lera Evseeva? Did she injure or stop skating?
    Stop skating AFAIK.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Not only Russians, not only female.
    Da Bin Choi and Karen Chen with 3Lz+3T, Vincent Zhou (and Nathan Chen before him).
    Polina Edmunds in her first Senior Internationals (Olympics at the same season when she had first Internationals - what an irony!) landed two 3+3 combos in FS and was the only who did it at Olympics-2014 FS.

    Ando, Asada, Yuna Kim also had very cmplicated content being juniors or even pre-juniors. Russian girls are not the first.
    Now, I believe, we see 2nd generation of technical complexity.
    Yes, Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva started it, but also was Gracie Gold.
    I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was 'the whole trend'. You are talking about a few exceptions. For example, although in USA Gold and Edmunds and Chen had it at pretty young age (actually, I think just Edmunds and Chen, Gold was that that great yet when she was 14), and in Japan it was Asada, and in Korea Kim, in those countries it was not the norm, it was 'something special' when these ladies brought this hard technical content. But in Russian ladies it is suddenly somehow 'expected', like the 'basic requirement'. I don't think that in Japan or USA the majority ladies have 3F-3T or 3Lz-3T in their SP at seniors and nearly all of them have 3-3 in their SP in juniors, whereas in Russia (both juniors and seniors) you nearly don't get to the nationals without it. (I know that some of the seniors have only 3T-3T, but those are the ones that placed around 15-18th out of 18, or the ones that had good enough name that they were held up (Leonova). Whereas in Japan, USA etc there is a few, in Russia you either have it or you don't even go to the nationals. That's completely different situation.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was 'the whole trend'. You are talking about a few exceptions. For example, although in USA Gold and Edmunds and Chen had it at pretty young age (actually, I think just Edmunds and Chen, Gold was that that great yet when she was 14), and in Japan it was Asada, and in Korea Kim, in those countries it was not the norm, it was 'something special' when these ladies brought this hard technical content. But in Russian ladies it is suddenly somehow 'expected', like the 'basic requirement'. I don't think that in Japan or USA the majority ladies have 3F-3T or 3Lz-3T in their SP at seniors and nearly all of them have 3-3 in their SP in juniors, whereas in Russia (both juniors and seniors) you nearly don't get to the nationals without it. (I know that some of the seniors have only 3T-3T, but those are the ones that placed around 15-18th out of 18, or the ones that had good enough name that they were held up (Leonova). Whereas in Japan, USA etc there is a few, in Russia you either have it or you don't even go to the nationals. That's completely different situation.
    Sotnikova has very good 3T+3T, but her 3Lz+3T is almost always 3Lz+3T<, and her 3Lz+3Lo is even worse.
    Both Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia have only one 3+3 combo in FS, and they are the best female skaters in Russia.
    Ultra-complicated elements are not absolutely needed in Russia.

    But yes, total level of Russian Nationals (both Junior and Senior) is higher that any other competition except Worlds and Olympics, and technical level is even higher than Worlds and Olympics.
    Complicated elements in Russia became "simplest way to top". But with no warranty - good non-jumping elements and program components are needed too. For example, Alsu Kajumova with her complicated jumping content is not in top because of low PCS and GOE.

    This situation is unique for Russia.
    But we see young skaters of other countries with complicated content. I believe, level will rise not only in Russia.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Sotnikova has very good 3T+3T, but her 3Lz+3T is almost always 3Lz+3T<, and her 3Lz+3Lo is even worse.
    Both Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia have only one 3+3 combo in FS, and they are the best female skaters in Russia.
    Ultra-complicated elements are not absolutely needed in Russia.
    Because both Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya also have 2A-3T in their program. There is no need to do second 3-3 if you also have 2A-3T because the bottom line is you can only use seven triples maximum within the program (unless you also have 3A). So if you are allowed seven triples, it doesn't really matter if you put them 3-3, 3-3, 3, 3, 3 and the rest doubles including 2A, or if you do 3-3, 2A-3, 3,3,3,3. I used to get excited when there was a clip of Gracie doing triple-triple-triple combination before I realised that even this super difficult thing would not bring her any advantage at all because when she runs out the triple jumps, all she will be able to add is doubles as solo jumps, so she may as well do 3-2-2 and then the triples as solo jumps. It is irony that the judging system doesn't appreciate that the 3-3 combination is harder than doing the triples separately. For example, a female skater A who would do 3-3-3, 3-3, 3-3 have exhausted all her triples within three jumping passes (combinations) and all that she can add now is doubles as the solo jumps. Then skater B would have exactly the same amount of triples and doubles, do 3-3 and 3-3 but the third combination would be 'only' 3-2-2 and then the solo jumps would be the remaining two triples and the rest doubles. One can argue that skater A have done more difficult program because of the 3-3-3 combination (although the number of triples and doubles would be exactly the same). In reality, they would get the same amount of points as a base value and the skater A would be risking much more because in 3-3-3 is higher chance that one of them could be potentially underrotated.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Because both Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya also have 2A-3T in their program. There is no need to do second 3-3 if you also have 2A-3T because the bottom line is you can only use seven triples maximum within the program (unless you also have 3A).
    Yes.
    Base value close to highest possible with 7 triples gives jumping content:
    2A+3T+2T
    2A+3T
    3Lz+2T
    3Lz
    3F
    3Lo
    3S
    This jumping content had Shelepen, Lipintskaia (in her winning season 2011/2012), Pogorilaya (at JGP Events 2012), Drynkina.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    It is irony that the judging system doesn't appreciate that the 3-3 combination is harder than doing the triples separately. For example, a female skater A who would do 3-3-3, 3-3, 3-3 have exhausted all her triples within three jumping passes (combinations) and all that she can add now is doubles as the solo jumps.
    3Lz+3T+3T, 3F+3Lo, 3S+3Lo - it is almost unreally complicated, and does not give advantage in base value. Nobody does it.
    Male skaters sometimes land 3S+3T+3T (Kevin van der Perren). The same combo landed Sakhanovich, only once in low-level competition, when she was not interested in highest possible score.

    GOE means very much.
    At RusNat-2014 in SP Sotnikova had base value 29.83 with 3T+3T, Radionova 32.06 with 3Lz+3T. Sotnikova's TES was 37.35, Radionova's 37.44 because of higher Sotnikova's GOE. And Sotnikova had higher total score because of higher PCS.

    If all other is about equal - 3Lz+3T or two 3+3 combos in FS give "Wow!" effect and higher total score.
    If not equal - we see Yuna Kim won Worlds-2013 with 6 triples in FS and total score 20.42 higher than second place, while her base value in FS was only 4th.
    Quality beats quantity.
    Kim had not just 3Lz+3T, but very good 3Lz+3T and very good all other.
    For comparizon - Elene Gedevanishvili was the only Lady who landed 3Lz+3T at Worlds-2012 and was 10th.

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