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Thread: Men's Free - Notes & Results

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    Men's Free - Notes & Results

    Here's the men -- I'll have some comments later. . . when I've had a chance to think about it

    RSA Konrad Giering Start 1 Place 22
    Notes bronze 'chestplate' brown pants / starts out with nice xfoot spin / 2a had it then fell out / 3f under rot 2ft but stood up / I just missed a spin, sorry out of breath running back from pairs press conference / 2-1/2 l stood up / o ftwrk needs more detail ok flow nice split jump into 2f and another 2f?? / nice spread eagle spiral section / 2z / 2f supposed to be combo but don't think the 2nd jump was done / combo spin / 2z / 2a fell slow getting up / travel stars into fly camel /

    MEX Miguel Angel Moyron Start 2 Place 17
    Notes black with shiny gold roll collar & cuffs / he's a real cutie big smile with braces / 2-1/2f turns 2t / 3t2t / 3s bit unsteady on landing but it was clean / fly cam isn't bad at all nice pos / 2a bit tight on landing but geat flourish with music which isRondo Capricioso / O ftwrk is very musical / 3t / layback a la petrenko / 2a / 3s2t / combo spin cam sit layback back sit good speed & centering / strt ftwrk needs more detail but he's doing really well / sit ch sit is very fast on font & good on back/ The crowd is in love with him esp after his reastions in the kiss & cry after his short - standing ovation from about 1/2 the crowd

    RSA Justin Pietersen Start 3 Place 20
    Notes royal blue with silver jagged esign / starts ou7t with an upright spin / 2a / bailed on 3s / 3t / nice spread eagles / chor to slow music / cam spin / music is Final Fantasy by Apolcalyptica / 3s turns 3t / sit spin / 2a 1t nice 2a / something didn't happen/ 2f fell out / ftwrk into 1f / O ftwrk turns all the same way bit simple / combo spin cam sit back sit scratch - good centering & speed & pos / music stopped at 4:19

    MEX Humberto Contreras Start 4 Place 19
    Notes Mexican Folk Music / white shirt with sash around hips backpnts / 3z under rot fel really slow into it / 3f stumbled out but stood up / combo spin with great pos including a reallyflat back layback / 3l stood up hopped out / chor to slow section into a layback most ladies would die to have - strt leg with hands over head / 3s3l bit cheated on loop but stood up and boy was he happy / I misse something in there re-living his layback / 2a fell / 3l fell ba lean / mexican hat dance is the music now and the crowd is clapping along / he's doing some nice lively S footwork into barrel rolls to fly cam to end / someone really appreciated him - he got a pair of red & white striped ladies panties

    MEX Adrian Alvarado Start 5 Place 21
    Notes Romeo & Juliet / maroon velvet / fly sit to start / 3s turns out into 2t / deliberate entry into 3t 2ft under rot / flycam had nice fly / 2a very tight full circle on landing / travel 3's into 1l / spiral sequence leg didn't make it even with hip / high 2-1/2 z far end of rink not quite sure / O ftwrk is not bad / sideway sit spin similar to one Jeff does - really looked good / 2f / stars into back sit took a bit to get centered but he did it / combo spin cam ch cam back sit to scratch that was a bit slow / not quite as entertaining as the other 2 Mxican boys but not bad / he also rec'd a pair of red & white striped ladies bikini panties

    AUS Daniel Harries Start 6 Place 14
    Notes black with green sequin design over one shoulder / Matrix Reloaded soundtrack / 3z2t 3turns out of toe / 3t fell out 2t / 3f fell / combo spin is fast with good pos / spiral seq to slower softer part of music / 3s2t / beatiful spread eagle not held longenough to admire properly into loop that didn't get off ice / cam ch cam has good stretch // music changes to drum heavy and O ftwrk matches / 3s fell / 1a / butterfly back sit nice air pos / flycam with layover pos /

    AUS Stuart Beckingham Start 7 Place 15
    Notes Purple tunic top music is Keys to Imagination, Santorini by Yanni / 3t2t / 3s hand down / cam chcam excellent pos & speed / 3l went up bad could see it would happen bailed at 2 revs / O ftwrkturns all the same way but is quite pleasant to watch / 2a fellout / flycam has great fly and good spin / strt ftwrk is very good fast & difficult crowd was clapping for him 1/2 way through / 3t fell / combo spin is soso I've seen him do it much better in practice / spiral se1q with spirals held long enough to enjoy them / 3s on lean 2ft stood up 2t / 2f / combo spin to end is quite good / he has a really nice camel pos & great speed on it

    RSA Gareth Echardt Start 8 Place 16
    Notes dark royal blue shirt & darker pants / Aranjuez Mon Amour by Rodrigo / 3t2t he's moving quite fast / big popped lutz / fly sit had nice low pos but slow / 2l step out / 2a / 1f / 2z / he's kind of lost me, not holding my attention / 2s / sit ch sit is centered good pos bit slow / combo spin to end is a bit weak /

    AUS Bradley Santer Start 9 Place 13
    Notes black with red wavy lines ontop / Matrix Reloaded soundtrack (again) / 3z right side dropped a bit on landing but stayed up / 2l stumbed out - was supposed to be 3 / 3f nice & high / bailed ind weird on axel / flycam has good speed & pos / O ftwrk to drums part of music is ok but seems to be missing something / sit ch sit is pretty low ok speed / 3s / 3z fell / 2a turns 2t / stars into back sit that needs to be a lot lower / 2t / combo spin good speed on front almost lost it changing to back but recovered

    NZL Tristan Thode Start 10 Place 18
    Notes silvery satin shirt with navy blue stripe navy crushed velvet pants / 2l / music is The Rock soundtrack / 3t 1/2 looop 2t? fell not quite sure / combo spin is soso / ??jump didn't see it / 3s under rot stayed up / sit ch sit is very good nice pos & ok sped / spiral spread eagle seq is not bad at all / 2f / strt ftwrk is a bit short but pretty good detail / 2a2t / edgework to slower music / 1s2t / flysit was really good high fly / he had slowed down, sped right up for O ftwrk which was quite good / 3t / 2a / fell doing some sort of flying something into a spin I think /

    CAN Ben Ferreira Start 11 Place 6
    Notes dark grey vest & pants over grey shirt / Untouchables soundtrack / 3a3t perfect / 4t fell / 3f / dath drop - very good to fast low sit / 3z2t / som chor to slower music / 3a I thought it was too big but he landed it clean / flycam with excelent pos & speed / 3l turnout but stayed on 1 foot / 3s / S ftwrk with spreadeagles & spiral / / strt ftwrk crowd clapping goes with music well / flysit is very good / 3z / combo spin to end - not quite the performance of canadians but aside from the 4t it was very good

    KOR Dong-Whun Lee Start 12 Place 12
    Notes beige shirt brown pants & suspenders / poped 4t to a double / 2a2t / flyback sit is well centered good pos & speed / Music is legends of the fall / 3z step out / 3s landed on toe but stayed clean / 3f / flycam good fly and nice layover pos / soft part that everyone knows - piano bit with some nice chor moves / 2l / popped loop again / music goes kind of 'spooky' and he does cam with neat pos to it / S ftwrk to faster music / 3t / combo spin to end has good pos & speed / not a bad skate some mistakes but kept the program going

    JPN Daisuke Takahashl Start 13 Place 4
    Notes black & white diagonal with music notes / rhapsody on a theme of paganini / 4t / 3a landed a bit forward 3t / crowd clapping to familiar part 3z3t / flycam with layover really fast / chor section / 3z fell / O ftwrk morozov style is fast & detialed & goes really well with music uses his whole body into 3l / more chor to slower section into 3s / combo spin including layback briefly / spread eagle / 3f into death drop with good fl / strt ftwrk prep and the chinese saters are calling out to him / dynamic ftwrk mororzov style again using whole body crowd appreciates it and is clapping / combo so spin to end includes emanuel butt pos / very good skate & he is thrilled /

    CHN Song Gao Start 14 Place 8
    Notes black sparkly shirt / pirates of the caribbean / 4t very low in the knee on landing 3t fell out of 3 / 3a again very low in knee on landing, free foot brushed going by / 3z / flycam in wide open pos / 3l fell out / cam spin has ok pos bit slow / music isnow legends of the fall / some nice chor to this section including loops & brackets / cam ch cam is really pretty so much better than his plain cam why? / big open 1a / movees section of ina & spread eagle /3f / strt ftwrk is super detailed & difficult moves quite well / 3s / 3t / combo spin to end is very fast with sit backsit pos

    USA Ryan Bradley Start 15 Place 10
    Notes dueling banjos devil cam down to georgia / 3a fell / he started out with some great movement to set the mood / 2a / flying forward sit is pretty good / O ftwrk is wonderful in hotown mode / 3z2t / dixie land is the music now / some neat chor of long edges / 2a looked like he was going for the triple & changed his mind in the air / flycam is very good / 3f turns 3s just hung on to the sal / divl went down to georgia / death drop is good / strt ftwrk is great with the right kind of movement for music / 3z just barely hung on to it turns triple loop / combo spin had flyover to back camel

    CHN Lun Song Start 16 Place 11
    Notes feet of flames, lord of the dance / black / big 2t / big 3a fell out / 3z / celtic dance / flycam is very fast to inside edgeexcelllent pos / chor section to slower music / 4t foot collapsed under him / 3l / 3f 3turns out / O ftwrk is detiled but didn't hold my interest / 3s / 3t2t / combo spin is fast with ok pos / strt ftwrk dynamic starts wtih lots of very fast toe work for 1st 3rd then into edge work / sitch sit / 2a / butterfly into back sit /

    CHN Xiaodong Ma Start 17 Place 9
    Notes Con Air Soundtrack / navy blue / 4t very low landing far end of rink not sure if clean / 3a low landing again / sit ch sit is very fast pos could be lowe both front & back / pause before strt ftwrk which is pretty good / popped lutz / fycam is nice to layout pos / chor to slower music / 3a low landing turns 2t / 3l / 3s / flyback sit good fly / 3f really dropped right side but stayed clen / combo spin to end lacks something /

    USA Evan Lysacek Start 18 Place 3
    Notes erto #2 rachmaninoff / orange blousey top with gold at neck & cuffs black pants / 3a / 3a2t / 3l / flycam is very good with nice pos & speed / 3z3t bit jerky on landing of toe far end of rink think it was clean / sit ch sit is great / combo spin has greapos & god speed pos could have been held longer / chor to slower section / 3s / spiral spread eagle into death drop / 3f2t / strt ftwrk is good bit too much arm flapping / upright spin to end / Great skate he did everything he could but the program just didn't do a lot for me unlike his short which I think is just wonderful

    USA Ryan Jahnke Start 19 Place 5
    Notes purple top brown pants orange & green onsleeves / brasilian music - Chamada , cosa nostra , candyell beat / 3a bit forward on landing but clean / 3t / 3z3l / there was a great flying sit with pos variations in there / S ftwrk with some great dancing / hecan really move to music / cam to inside to sit to inside edge - really good hard to describe / pop a skidded take off / spreadeagle in full circle / 3tano lutz / 3f / 3s / combo spin with cam variation / strt ftwrk is great right on with music / 2a / deathdrop with greast fly & sit variation /

    CAN Emanuel Sandhu Start 20 Place 2
    Notes white on shoulders with fushia around waist black lattice effect / ninkov latora , slow+sassy, take california / 4t 3turnout 2l / 1a I didn't like the look going in / 3l bad lean outside fell out / 3z barely hung on to landing / butterfly back sit / chor to slow & sassy is just wonderful. / 3a landed at dead stop on toe but pushed it out / 3a3t funny turnout on toe that he tried to cover up / neat spin with bent knee / 3f3t 2ft on toe / 3s / strt ftwrk is great with twizzles at end to rival most dancers/ combo spin is great - we've al seen it / illusions to back scratch to end /

    JPN Yamato Tamura Start 21 Place 7
    Notes space battlecruiser tamato soundtrack / navy blue militarystyle / 4t hung on then sat / 4t hands down kind of sat got up & did 1t / 3l / 3s / music was kind of bombastic now has beecome very melodic and he does a ni e sit spin then some chor / 3a fell / 3f landed on inside edge hand down / flysit is very good / 3z low landing 2t / S ftwrk to very gradious seciton ofmusic that softens really quickly / 3t / S ftwrk (yes again) very good / salutes judges / butterflyies into great fly on flysit & fast low spin / combo spi to end has great sit pos & speed /

    CAN Jeffrey Buttle Start 22 Place 1
    Notes navy blue & brown / samson & delilah by saint-saens / 3f / 3t / 3a low landing turnout on 2feet / flycam to die for with wonder ful pos & sped changes / chor to slow section / 2a / 1l turns 3l bit shakey on landing but clean / ina lunge 3turns into 3s turns into 3t / flysit with great pos variations / spiral seq that is wonderful / music speedup & strt step seq fits with it well / spread eagle 2 z / cam spin wrong way to combo spin starting with cam right way to rest of is wonderful pos /

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    Thanks for your all your reports Rosaleen. They are great and very appreciated. I look forward to your comments on the mens lp.

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    Re: Men's Free - Notes & Results

    Thanks, once again, for the terrific reports Rosaleen (another reason why people should register w/Golden Skate IMHO, no lie),

    Originally posted by Rosaleen

    USA Ryan Bradley Start 15 Place 10
    Notes dueling banjos devil cam down to georgia / 3a fell / he started out with some great movement to set the mood / 2a / flying forward sit is pretty good / O ftwrk is wonderful in hotown mode / 3z2t / dixie land is the music now / some neat chor of long edges / 2a looked like he was going for the triple & changed his mind in the air / flycam is very good / 3f turns 3s just hung on to the sal / divl went down to georgia / death drop is good / strt ftwrk is great with the right kind of movement for music / 3z just barely hung on to it turns triple loop / combo spin had flyover to back camel
    Get thee to pairs skating, Ryan Bradley, pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase. US pairs skating needs your height, power, jumps, pizzazz, and infectious personality (no lie).

    Peace & Love, Nadine

    P.S. I see that COP mentality has also hit menzzz skating as well. :( Sixteen year old Miki Ando, a Junior on the ladies JGP circuit, could have easily won this competition (no b.s.) with her 4S & 3Z/3R!
    Last edited by Nadine; 01-25-2004 at 12:28 AM.

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    Rosaleen-
    Can you supply any ordinals? Some are wondering if the sekret computer factored in the outcome. Also, it looks to many of us at FSU that Jeff was held up. Was Jeff's presentation so much better to warrant him being put over Eman, and clean skates by Evan and Ryan?

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    With a little luck tomorrow morning (now this morning) I'll be able to get ordinals for the main skaters, but they're static ordinals. What this means is that they're only valid for the skater at that point in the competition. I'll explain better how they work if/when I get them tomorrow and post what I can.

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    Re: Re: Men's Free - Notes & Results

    Originally posted by Nadine

    P.S. I see that COP mentality has also hit menzzz skating as well. :( Sixteen year old Miki Ando, a Junior on the ladies JGP circuit, could have easily won this competition (no b.s.) with her 4S & 3Z/3R!
    With no 3axel and a program lilke that against the likes of Jahnke, Buttle, Sandhu?

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    To answer your 2nd question about how I feel about the placements, I'm still trying to figure out what I think the placements should have been.

    Here's some thoughts on the top 6 or so in the freeskate. I'm kind of 'thinking out loud' here so don't be surprised if I contradict myself This is all MY OPINION and THOUGHTS, so I'm not going to use IMO in the following, take it as being so.

    Ben skated great, not quite as electric as at Canadians (mainly because him landing the 4toe at Canadians really raised the energy of the program and the audience) and at that point in the competition him being placed 1st was right, without a doubt.

    Daisuke also skated great with a 4t and 3a3t & 3z3t, 3l, 3s,3f only falling on a 3z. So he had 7 triples & a quad along with very good spins & footwork and very good presentation. The only thing working against him is that maybe the presentation wasn't very sophisticated (not sure if that's the right word, maybe mature is a better word?). He's young yet and that came across a bit. Putting him ahead of Ben at this point was right. He really got the audience involved in his program and they were responding all the way through it. There was just enough to put him ahead of Ben, even though Ben had more mature presentation. But then again, did I just get caught up in the excitement of the moment and should Ben have been ahead? Maybe the excitement of the moment is why Daisuke should be ahead so I'll leave him there.

    Now come a bunch of skaters who ended up not skating great and not being in contention.

    Next to skate was Evan. He skated really well, doing everything he can (no quad). I'm not really 100% sure, but I'd be inclined to have him behind Daisuke. Both lack some maturity but I think the quad and the program itself would be enough to put Daisuke ahead. I have to admit that allthough I really like Evan's skating, his long program does nothing for me -- not sure if it's the choreography, the music or a combination of the 2, or even the excessive arm flapping (note to Evan, get rid of the flapping -- your short program is wonderful and there isn't any arm flapping in it), but there's just something . . .

    I think Daisuke (and Ben, for that matter) really suffered from the skate order with 4 not so great skates & a warmup between them and Evan. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm thinking I would have had Evan behind both Daisuke & Ben.

    Now comes Ryan Jahnke, who skated just great except for the popped axel. The 3z3l, even though at the far end of the rink, looked wonderful to me. His musicality and the way he moved to the Brasilain beat. . . His spins (admitedly not fast) with their wonderful and unique positions and changes of edge... I'd have had him in first at this point. Daisuke's quad wasn't enough to keep him ahead of Ryan's presentation.

    So now, my placements most likely at this point (and you're welcome to try and change my mind) would be
    Ryan
    Daisuke
    Ben
    Evan

    Now comes Emanuel. I'm sure most of us have seen Emanuel skate so we know what his presentation can be like and how beautiful his jumps are when done well. His program also is very sophisticated. BUT tonight he just didn't skate it well except for the 'slow'n sassy' section in the middle (where there weren't any jumps). Yes, he managed to land a fair number of triples along with the 4t. But the popped axel coupled with the not very good landings on so many of his triples really marred the program and his presentation of it. (The only one that was his usual beautiful landing was the 3sal at the end of the program, although the 3f3t 2foot was probably only really noticable to the farily educated fan). There was almost a sense of desperation from him in trying to get the triples in and I felt the resulting missing choreography really detracted from the 'program package'. My placement would have had him definitely behind Ryan and I'm thinking that I'd have had him even lower but I'm not completely sure of that . I can see arguments for placing him anywhere from 2nd through 4th at this point, but definitely not in 1st.

    Now comes Jeff, what do we do? His program is wonderful, no doubt about it and he performs everything so well tonight except for the jumps. No, it's not called figure-jumping, but whether we like it or not, jumps are a fairly large part of the technical mark. He only completes 5 clean triples with no lutz or axel. His combo is a 1l3l and he has a 3s3t sequence (the 2 easiest triples). I've already talked to some people that disagree with me, but I don't feel his presentation was up to his usual standard. Because he lowered the difficulty of his jumps and didn't fall on them, the presentation wasn't marred as much as it might have otherwise been, so that has to enter into the mix (either for or against him -- probably for the knowledgable fan against and the fan that doesn't realize the difficulty was lowered so much, for).

    Back to the operative question, where do I place him? Jeff's program is very dramatic and draws you into it. But tonight was that because we *wanted* to be drawn into it and/or because everyone *knows* that it's a wonderful program and we *should* be drawn into it and if you don't "get it" there's something wrong with you? Ryan's program in a completely different way, is just as or almost as good, but the audience hasn't been 'primed' for it the way we have for Jeff's. Something along the lines of how wonderful Jeff's Gelsomina program was or even his Take 5 short program in a completely different way from this or his Elger program of last year was. Follow what I mean? Even if you don't agree with me??

    Once again, back to where I would place Jeff. I would say that it would have to be behind Ryan for sure. and now I'm in a debate again. If I've place Emanuel in 2nd prior to Jeff's skate, does Jeff go in front of or behind Emanuel, Oh boy. I think I have to place him behind Emanuel although I'm not entirely comfortable with that. There's the quandry of which way to go: rewarding a jump-defcient program with wonderful choreography & presentation over a jump-adequate program with good presentation & choreography (as it was performed tonight).


    So my placement in the free would be:
    Ryan Jahnke
    Emanuel
    Jeff
    Daisuke
    Ben
    Evan

    Looking at it, I'm still arguing with myself that it doesn't seem right Really wishy washy tonight (or this morning), aren't I? I'm going to leave it here though and let you people come up with reasons why I should change my mind. Bet you weren't expecting a dissertation when you asked for my opinion

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    Thank you for your musings (and your other reports too). I get what you're talking about an audience being "primed" a certain way. "Mon coeur..." from Samson & Deliah is one of my all time favorite arias. So, I could see how just that could pull in an audience more than Ryan's more obscure, less accessible musical selections.

    You'll get little arguement from me, since I too would have put Ryan in first just from what I have read on the boards and seen from these skaters in the past. I think Ryan has as good of basic skating skills and presentational skills as Eman and Jeff, but Ryan just isn't as showy, flashy, and obvious. Ryan skated cleaner, and I figured Eman and Jeff couldn't have been at their overall presentation best with their mistakes. So, that's why I feel Ryan should have won.

    As for the other top skaters, I haven't seen enough of Dashuke (sp?) to guess whether he should be over Evan. I also wasn't and still am not sure whether a cleaner, but less mature Evan should have been put over problematic skates by Eman and Jeff-- though I think I'm still leaning that way.

    Of course, this is all guessing and speculation on my part, since I wasn't there and haven't seen it. It will be interesting to see what I think if and when I see this on US TV. In the meantime, it's nice to know that someone who was actually there agrees with me for the most part.
    Last edited by Aria; 01-25-2004 at 06:52 AM.

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    Originally posted by Rosaleen
    Now comes Jeff, what do we do? His program is wonderful, no doubt about it and he performs everything so well tonight except for the jumps. No, it's not called figure-jumping, but whether we like it or not, jumps are a fairly large part of the technical mark. He only completes 5 clean triples with no lutz or axel.
    Some are reporting (perhaps just the papers?) that Jeff only landed four clean triples. Are they discounting the single 3l?
    Last edited by Aria; 01-25-2004 at 05:21 AM.

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    I think that what these people may be discounting is the 3T he did at the end which wasn't in combination or sequence.

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    Originally posted by Aria
    Rosaleen-
    Can you supply any ordinals? Some are wondering if the sekret computer factored in the outcome. Also, it looks to many of us at FSU that Jeff was held up. Was Jeff's presentation so much better to warrant him being put over Eman, and clean skates by Evan and Ryan?
    He won from a judging system put into place after the Olympic controversy. I guess over at FSU the only bad system is one that benefits a canadian. :D Do they note the delicious irony?

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    Thank you so much Rosaleen for the detailed discussion. I can't stand the fact that Ryan Jahnke, despite being one of the best *skaters* in the world, is getting so little respect from the judges, international or US. I think his LP this season is one brilliant work of art and I personally prefer it to Buttle's S&D. Still can't believe he's only 5th.
    I hope Emanuel gets a good LP next season that showcases his strengths. If there's any classical skater, it's him.

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    Jahnke does have an amazing program. I absolutely love it, and feel he should have been placed higher.

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    Same here for Ryan J - I not only love his programs and their construction, but the way the man performs them...well, if that isn't artistry, I don't know what is! And he's finally begun to tame that axel jump for real, in addition to landing *difficult* combinations. And *still* the judges are holding out, it seems. Could it be "reputation" judging of old rearing its head again??? :(

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