Gracie Gold is without coach | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Gracie Gold is without coach

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
JMHO, but I think that Frank Carroll's comments about the need for a single voice is exactly right. There needs to be an overall vision for Gracie's career, a strategic arc that is mapped, whose waypoints do not end at Sochi. I fear that Gracie is bombarded with too many cacophonous voices, and that she has been sucked into the hype of her hypothetical position in the skating firmament (hypothetical because she hasn't really accomplished anything yet) and the attendant short-term payoff. Why do I think this? The fact that she refers to her "haters" is a small but clear sign, I think, that she has not shielded herself from the vortex of public expectations.

Naturally, at such an age and under such a mindset, when things do not go swimmingly, a certain amount of panic starts setting in, which is always a dangerous time. Her Free-Skate, in which her jumps began to unravel like a bad zipper after the first mistake, is emblematic in microcosm of potential macro issues in the management of her career that Gracie needs to navigate.

Again, purely my personal opinion, but I believe that Gracie should be focusing on improving and competing hard and having fun, knowing that she's executing a five-year game plan, not just a few months. If something unexpectedly great unfolds, that's icing. By lifting the burden of internal expectations, it might even improve her results.

I am not, I trust, underestimating or patronizing Gracie. Timing is everything. If she had more years of senior skating under her belt, and it was clear that she is at or near her performance plateau, then it is a different story. Then, one's time is now, and the skater has to accept the proposition that she must go big or go home.

Gracie, however, does not need to take up that particular burden quite yet, in my view. And we shouldn't be pushing it on her.

Take a deep breath, girl, and get a good sniff of perspective. I certainly hope things work with Frank Carroll.

(Then get back to your run-throughs :laugh:)

Wow, Robeye. That was most eloquent, rational post I've read in the last few days, RE: Gracie Gold. Thanks you for this. I had been very discouraged and frustrated by the number of "Gracie is doomed posts," not because I'm her uber (though I guess the way I've been defending her, I seem to be. :laugh: But what I'm defending is exactly what you have written, Robeye. I'm defending the fact that any career is a process and one will certainly have struggles, weaknesses that don't disappear just because the fans want them too. The key to Gracie's success isn't "whether she has it together" but rather how she handles the struggles, disagreements along the way.

I think the "haters" comment she tweeted was probably a combination of disappointment in herself (i mean, she just had a bad skate) along with having to see a number of people tag @GracieEGold with nasty comments for like last few days. Gracie strikes to me as a person who takes critcism to heart for herself and even for others, especially if they are close friends/family. I remember a few months ago, some Twitter users were making fun of her sister (and again tagging her ...why the heck they would do that I'm not sure) and Gracie proceeded to defend her with these two random antonymous users. So I agree, Robeye, she will have to learn to process through social media and use those tweets to motivate her rather than cripple her.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.

Depends on how often it occurred and in what context. I can't access the article either. What does it say about this?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
No, that would not be fair.

In case it helps anyone still trying to see the full text of the Hersh article, the following approach worked for me this time.
(I am in the U.S., but for past Hersh articles, I sometimes have had trouble getting access.)

In an incognito window of Google Chrome, I first went to the tweet below.
Then clicked on the article link there ... and voila.

(I agree with seabm7 that copying and pasting the entire article here would be wrong.)

Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.

FYI to others: The reference to Alex O yelling is NOT from the Hersh article.
I think it is from the IN article, IIRC.

The timing according to Hersh:
Gold leaves Canton on Wednesday for the tryout with Carroll.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Thanks, golden411, that worked. Any other way, I was getting a box that I must subscribe to the "Digital Plus" edition of the Trib.

Gracie and her family and everyone involved need to think this through carefully. Traveling frequently between CA and MI does not seem like a solution to anything or a workable proposition. Training time and energy sacrificed to travel never works; I'm sure Mirai could tell her all about that. And a commute by car with someone else driving had to be less stressful than constant air travel, time zone changing and essentially living in two places.

And, I hope this doesn't sound snarky or mean because it isn't intended to, but does she realize that Shizuka already had a world title on her resume by the fall of 2005?
 

SkateFan66

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.

Hope Gracie has thick skin if she plans to work with Frank Carroll. Frank has been known for showing tough love to his skaters. IIRC, he slapped Lysacek on the side of the face at one competition.
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
In case it helps anyone still trying to see the full text of the Hersh article, the following approach worked for me this time.
(I am in the U.S., but for past Hersh articles, I sometimes have had trouble getting access.)

In an incognito window of Google Chrome, I first went to the tweet below.
Then clicked on the article link there ... and voila.

(I agree with seabm7 that copying and pasting the entire article here would be wrong.)

Thank you golden411!!! I just tried it in a Private Window in Firefox, and your instructions work on there as well!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Now that I have read the article, and heard Frank's views, I am slightly more re-assured that Gracie thought hard before going down this road, and knows what she is doing (and also the dangers of what she is doing).

But, this upheaval so soon to the Olympics is still bound to be unsettling.

CaroLiza_fan
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Hope Gracie has thick skin if she plans to work with Frank Carroll. Frank has been known for showing tough love to his skaters. IIRC, he slapped Lysacek on the side of the face at one competition.

I have never, in years of watching skating, seen Frank act inappropriately with a skater at a competition. Please cite your source. I would think a story of a skater being slapped by a coach would have caused a lot of noise even in the wider media.
 

SkateFan66

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I have never, in years of watching skating, seen Frank act inappropriately with a skater at a competition. Please cite your source. I would think a story of a skater being slapped by a coach would have caused a lot of noise even in the wider media.

I can't link The New York Times article using my cell phone; however, it is titled "Will Steady Resolve Land Lysacek Gold? and was written by Juliet Macur and published on 2/15/2010. The article mentions that Frank slapped Lysacek on the face at 2008 Nationals to calm Evan and refocus him; that the slap mark was visible when Evan skated, and that Lysacek did not mind that Frank slapped him.
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
I can't link The New York Times article using my cell phone; however, it is titled "Will Steady Resolve Land Lysacek Gold? and was written by Juliet Macur and published on 2/15/2010. The article mentions that Frank slapped Lysacek on the face at 2008 Nationals to calm Evan and refocus him; that the slap mark was visible when Evan skated, and that Lysacek did not mind that Frank slapped him.

The link is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sports/olympics/16lysacek.html

And, fans outside the US need not worry - I had no problem opening it! (But, there again, I use Firefox in Private mode all the time!)

CaroLiza_fan
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
The link is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sports/olympics/16lysacek.html

And, fans outside the US need not worry - I had no problem opening it! (But, there again, I use Firefox in Private mode all the time!)

CaroLiza_fan

That does not read as abusive in any way, which is how the previous poster made it sound. Nor does it sound as if it happened in a "public" area, thus not on camera. Nor was it intended as any sort of "consequence" for how he skated or behaved.

I doubt that Frank would handle every skater in that way and since it did not upset Evan, clearly it was acceptable in the parameters of how they functioned together and how he felt he needed to be helped to focus. I also suspect that Frank would never take that approach with a female or underage skater.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
That does not read as abusive in any way, which is how your initial post made it sound. Nor does it sound as if it happened in a "public" area, thus not on camera. Nor was it intended as any sort of "consequence" for how he skated or behaved.

I doubt that Frank would handle every skater in that way and since it did not upset Evan, clearly it was acceptable in the parameters of how they functioned together and how he felt he needed to be helped to focus. I also suspect that Frank would never take that approach with a female or underage skater.

I don't think the initial made it sound as abusive as the article actually made it sound -- that's still pretty messed up. It doesn't matter if Evan "did not mind it"... it's still a slap that's hard enough to leave a mark. There's something to be said about discipline, but that IMO is going to far... regardless of whether the skater doesn't mind, happens to not be a girl, and is "old enough" to take it. If a coach ever did that to me or my kid, I would immediately fire them.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I think that by that time, Evan was his own man, without any parental input. I would hope that no reputable coach would lift a hand, as Louisa says, to any female or underage skater. Clearly both Carroll and Evan think highly enough of each other that they have continued the relationship. Normally, physical contact (especially in a relationship where one person, in this case the coach, literally has the upper hand) makes me very uneasy. But Lysacek and Carroll seem able to work things out for themselves.

Robeye, thanks for reminding us (in your eloquent post) that Gracie's career should be viewed as a long-range thing, not through the urgent lens of Sochi.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I don't think the initial made it sound as abusive as the article actually made it sound -- that's still pretty messed up. It doesn't matter if Evan "did not mind it"... it's still a slap that's hard enough to leave a mark. There's something to be said about discipline, but that IMO is going to far... regardless of whether the skater doesn't mind, happens to not be a girl, and is "old enough" to take it. If a coach ever did that to me or my kid, I would immediately fire them.

Evan was 22 years old. Not a "kid" whose parents should be making his coaching decisions without his agreement. Many 22 year olds are on their own and working and some have children of their own. So the "not my kid" thing doesn't really apply to that situation. And the original post implied that poor Gracie who couldn't take her last coach yelling better watch out because Frank would slap her around if she didn't do well. People respond to different things and people have different kinds of relationships. I don't think that moment is anything to judge either Evan or Frank by. And if Frank had any history of being an abusive coach, that would have become a public issue long before 2008 or now.

Never mind we don't even know why Gracie left her coach as she chose not to discuss it publicly (and wisely so).
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Gracie is in danger of not making the Olympic team with this turmoil going on in her coaching situation. Other skaters have their team in place and can just concentrate on their skating while she is trying to get a coach and has two bad programs on to of all this. Going back and forth from Chicago to California isn't going to work either.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Gracie is in danger of not making the Olympic team with this turmoil going on in her coaching situation. Other skaters have their team in place and can just concentrate on their skating while she is trying to get a coach and has two bad programs on to of all this. Going back and forth from Chicago to California isn't going to work either.

I don't think it's that dire. Even with her bad programs her jumps are good enough to finish at least 3rd.
 

Sara

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
I would be a bit surprised if Gracie would make the decision to work with Frank. Somehow what I've read I think that they might not match. Besides, it seems Gracie would prefer having 2 places to train which Frank is not in favour of (and in my opinion it would be difficult, travelling back and forth the whole season?!). To make it work she would need to move to LA or stay with Oleg and Marina.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I would be a bit surprised if Gracie would make the decision to work with Frank. Somehow what I've read I think that they might not match. Besides, it seems Gracie would prefer having 2 places to train which Frank is not in favour of (and in my opinion it would be difficult, travelling back and forth the whole season?!). To make it work she would need to move to LA or stay with Oleg and Marina.

The idea of traveling between CA and MI is just a bad one. I can't see why any skater would think that expending as much energy and time in airports as it would entail would be a good training situation. And the expenses would get outrageous really quickly.
 

sld6255

Spectator
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
The problem with Oleg and Marina is they are not singles coaches. To have ice dance coaches / choreographers as primary coach for an elite single skater is disaster waiting to happen- even the highly regarded Marina. It would be like Frank coaching Charlie and Meryl in ice dancing. Even if Gracie had the best programs in the world ( which she does not at this point) and the jumps are not delivered - she has nothing. Given that the strength of Gracie's skating is her jumping it would be in her best interest to hire a top notch single coach. If it does not work out with Frank, going back to train and be coached by ice dance coaches only is a dead end.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
And evan said he didn't mind the slap!!! What do we have going on here a sado-masochistic relationship ? lmao.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
That does not read as abusive in any way, which is how the previous poster made it sound. Nor does it sound as if it happened in a "public" area, thus not on camera. Nor was it intended as any sort of "consequence" for how he skated or behaved.

It certainly had something to do with the way Evan was behaving. Otherwise, what reason would there be for a slap?
 
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