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Thread: Gracie Gold is without coach

  1. #16
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    Carroll is back in the Toyota Center--but shuttling between three time-zones sounds like a bad idea all the same.

  2. #17
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    This is just purely speculation on my part, but I wonder if "once bitten, twice shy" is also at play with Frank. That is, he does not want a repeat of the Mirai situation (a tremendously talented, seemingly can't-miss future of US ladies skating who gets him all invested and excited, and then dashes his hopes when the various differences, of temperament, worldview, even the more mundane issues such as geographical location, ultimately cause the relationship to unravel).

    Frank is no spring chicken; he's only got a certain number of bullets left in the gun, so to speak, and I'm sure he doesn't want to waste them. If I were someone of Frank's eminence and seniority, I would probably want to feel fairly sure about mutual compatibility and congeniality, and that I was not being used (in the tawdry sense of the word) as a convenient short-term band-aid. I might even be suspicious of being the fall-guy if Sochi does not pan out as desired.

    That would possibly explain the "try-out".

    On a more general note, I've always been of the mind that Gracie should be viewed by American skating fans as a very exciting longer-term prospect, and not as the girl that is expected to medal now. She should be shown, as for all young up and comers, a certain amount of unconditional support for the time being, at least by her fellow nationals who consider themselves boosters of US skating.

    Personally, I do not wish, on the basis of one early-season performance, to peremptorily pigeonhole Gracie, to define the limits of what she can or cannot do, or become, as a skater in the future. Not reminding anyone of Yuna or Mao or Caro the first time out this season? Maybe she should quit skating and drive a truck .

    This is not to say that we shouldn't call a spade a spade. We can clearly see the areas that need to be improved (e.g. jump consistency, a variety of PCS qualities). But pointing out the current shortcomings is not the same as flat-out declaring that they can never get better, or better enough to matter, and that she should cut her losses, and accept the conventional wisdom of her innate limitations. I do not agree with this. Let her try. Competition, at least at the current stage of Gracie's career, should be first about fulfilling one's potential and the pursuit of personal excellence, from which winning may spring as a by-product.

    JMHO, but I think that Frank Carroll's comments about the need for a single voice is exactly right. There needs to be an overall vision for Gracie's career, a strategic arc that is mapped, whose waypoints do not end at Sochi. I fear that Gracie is bombarded with too many cacophonous voices, and that she has been sucked into the hype of her hypothetical position in the skating firmament (hypothetical because she hasn't really accomplished anything yet) and the attendant short-term payoff. Why do I think this? The fact that she refers to her "haters" is a small but clear sign, I think, that she has not shielded herself from the vortex of public expectations.

    Naturally, at such an age and under such a mindset, when things do not go swimmingly, a certain amount of panic starts setting in, which is always a dangerous time. Her Free-Skate, in which her jumps began to unravel like a bad zipper after the first mistake, is emblematic in microcosm of potential macro issues in the management of her career that Gracie needs to navigate.

    Again, purely my personal opinion, but I believe that Gracie should be focusing on improving and competing hard and having fun, knowing that she's executing a five-year game plan, not just a few months. If something unexpectedly great unfolds, that's icing. By lifting the burden of internal expectations, it might even improve her results.

    I am not, I trust, underestimating or patronizing Gracie. Timing is everything. If she had more years of senior skating under her belt, and it was clear that she is at or near her performance plateau, then it is a different story. Then, one's time is now, and the skater has to accept the proposition that she must go big or go home.

    Gracie, however, does not need to take up that particular burden quite yet, in my view. And we shouldn't be pushing it on her.

    Take a deep breath, girl, and get a good sniff of perspective. I certainly hope things work with Frank Carroll.

    (Then get back to your run-throughs )

  3. #18
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    Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    *whole post*
    Well said!

  5. #20
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    Gracie Gold is without coach

    I sincerely hope the situation will be solved, the best for her and very soon.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robeye View Post
    JMHO, but I think that Frank Carroll's comments about the need for a single voice is exactly right. There needs to be an overall vision for Gracie's career, a strategic arc that is mapped, whose waypoints do not end at Sochi. I fear that Gracie is bombarded with too many cacophonous voices, and that she has been sucked into the hype of her hypothetical position in the skating firmament (hypothetical because she hasn't really accomplished anything yet) and the attendant short-term payoff. Why do I think this? The fact that she refers to her "haters" is a small but clear sign, I think, that she has not shielded herself from the vortex of public expectations.

    Naturally, at such an age and under such a mindset, when things do not go swimmingly, a certain amount of panic starts setting in, which is always a dangerous time. Her Free-Skate, in which her jumps began to unravel like a bad zipper after the first mistake, is emblematic in microcosm of potential macro issues in the management of her career that Gracie needs to navigate.

    Again, purely my personal opinion, but I believe that Gracie should be focusing on improving and competing hard and having fun, knowing that she's executing a five-year game plan, not just a few months. If something unexpectedly great unfolds, that's icing. By lifting the burden of internal expectations, it might even improve her results.

    I am not, I trust, underestimating or patronizing Gracie. Timing is everything. If she had more years of senior skating under her belt, and it was clear that she is at or near her performance plateau, then it is a different story. Then, one's time is now, and the skater has to accept the proposition that she must go big or go home.

    Gracie, however, does not need to take up that particular burden quite yet, in my view. And we shouldn't be pushing it on her.

    Take a deep breath, girl, and get a good sniff of perspective. I certainly hope things work with Frank Carroll.

    (Then get back to your run-throughs )
    Wow, Robeye. That was most eloquent, rational post I've read in the last few days, RE: Gracie Gold. Thanks you for this. I had been very discouraged and frustrated by the number of "Gracie is doomed posts," not because I'm her uber (though I guess the way I've been defending her, I seem to be. But what I'm defending is exactly what you have written, Robeye. I'm defending the fact that any career is a process and one will certainly have struggles, weaknesses that don't disappear just because the fans want them too. The key to Gracie's success isn't "whether she has it together" but rather how she handles the struggles, disagreements along the way.

    I think the "haters" comment she tweeted was probably a combination of disappointment in herself (i mean, she just had a bad skate) along with having to see a number of people tag @GracieEGold with nasty comments for like last few days. Gracie strikes to me as a person who takes critcism to heart for herself and even for others, especially if they are close friends/family. I remember a few months ago, some Twitter users were making fun of her sister (and again tagging her ...why the heck they would do that I'm not sure) and Gracie proceeded to defend her with these two random antonymous users. So I agree, Robeye, she will have to learn to process through social media and use those tweets to motivate her rather than cripple her.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.
    Depends on how often it occurred and in what context. I can't access the article either. What does it say about this?

  8. #23
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabm7 View Post
    No, that would not be fair.
    In case it helps anyone still trying to see the full text of the Hersh article, the following approach worked for me this time.
    (I am in the U.S., but for past Hersh articles, I sometimes have had trouble getting access.)

    In an incognito window of Google Chrome, I first went to the tweet below.
    Then clicked on the article link there ... and voila.

    (I agree with seabm7 that copying and pasting the entire article here would be wrong.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.
    FYI to others: The reference to Alex O yelling is NOT from the Hersh article.
    I think it is from the IN article, IIRC.

    The timing according to Hersh:
    Gold leaves Canton on Wednesday for the tryout with Carroll.

  9. #24
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    Thanks, golden411, that worked. Any other way, I was getting a box that I must subscribe to the "Digital Plus" edition of the Trib.

    Gracie and her family and everyone involved need to think this through carefully. Traveling frequently between CA and MI does not seem like a solution to anything or a workable proposition. Training time and energy sacrificed to travel never works; I'm sure Mirai could tell her all about that. And a commute by car with someone else driving had to be less stressful than constant air travel, time zone changing and essentially living in two places.

    And, I hope this doesn't sound snarky or mean because it isn't intended to, but does she realize that Shizuka already had a world title on her resume by the fall of 2005?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Doesn't seem this has been well thought out. So Alex yelled at her. Surely that problem could have been easily worked out.
    Hope Gracie has thick skin if she plans to work with Frank Carroll. Frank has been known for showing tough love to his skaters. IIRC, he slapped Lysacek on the side of the face at one competition.

  11. #26
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    In case it helps anyone still trying to see the full text of the Hersh article, the following approach worked for me this time.
    (I am in the U.S., but for past Hersh articles, I sometimes have had trouble getting access.)

    In an incognito window of Google Chrome, I first went to the tweet below.
    Then clicked on the article link there ... and voila.

    (I agree with seabm7 that copying and pasting the entire article here would be wrong.)
    Thank you golden411!!! I just tried it in a Private Window in Firefox, and your instructions work on there as well!!!

    Now that I have read the article, and heard Frank's views, I am slightly more re-assured that Gracie thought hard before going down this road, and knows what she is doing (and also the dangers of what she is doing).

    But, this upheaval so soon to the Olympics is still bound to be unsettling.

    CaroLiza_fan

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    Hope Gracie has thick skin if she plans to work with Frank Carroll. Frank has been known for showing tough love to his skaters. IIRC, he slapped Lysacek on the side of the face at one competition.
    I have never, in years of watching skating, seen Frank act inappropriately with a skater at a competition. Please cite your source. I would think a story of a skater being slapped by a coach would have caused a lot of noise even in the wider media.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post

    I have never, in years of watching skating, seen Frank act inappropriately with a skater at a competition. Please cite your source. I would think a story of a skater being slapped by a coach would have caused a lot of noise even in the wider media.
    I can't link The New York Times article using my cell phone; however, it is titled "Will Steady Resolve Land Lysacek Gold? and was written by Juliet Macur and published on 2/15/2010. The article mentions that Frank slapped Lysacek on the face at 2008 Nationals to calm Evan and refocus him; that the slap mark was visible when Evan skated, and that Lysacek did not mind that Frank slapped him.

  14. #29
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    I can't link The New York Times article using my cell phone; however, it is titled "Will Steady Resolve Land Lysacek Gold? and was written by Juliet Macur and published on 2/15/2010. The article mentions that Frank slapped Lysacek on the face at 2008 Nationals to calm Evan and refocus him; that the slap mark was visible when Evan skated, and that Lysacek did not mind that Frank slapped him.
    The link is:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sp...16lysacek.html

    And, fans outside the US need not worry - I had no problem opening it! (But, there again, I use Firefox in Private mode all the time!)

    CaroLiza_fan

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    The link is:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sp...16lysacek.html

    And, fans outside the US need not worry - I had no problem opening it! (But, there again, I use Firefox in Private mode all the time!)

    CaroLiza_fan
    That does not read as abusive in any way, which is how the previous poster made it sound. Nor does it sound as if it happened in a "public" area, thus not on camera. Nor was it intended as any sort of "consequence" for how he skated or behaved.

    I doubt that Frank would handle every skater in that way and since it did not upset Evan, clearly it was acceptable in the parameters of how they functioned together and how he felt he needed to be helped to focus. I also suspect that Frank would never take that approach with a female or underage skater.

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