Gracie Gold is without coach

Mrs. P · Sep 19, 2013

FlattFan said:
^^ So you excused her "they deserved to be on the podium with me" nonsense, but you guessed your general feeling that TSL mocked Gracie.
Who talks like this? They deserved to be on the podium with me?

If you ask any logical person what does she mean by that, they will tell you she meant exactly what you don't want to hear.

Anyway, whatever. I thought she deserved to beat Ashley last year, but the way the Federation is pushing, they are turning this girl into a monster. Sad because I thought she had a lot of potential, and was rather likable young girl.

Now, the "haters" tweet, and the attitude, such a big turn off.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, here FF.

I will play and take a worse case scenario with that quote, OK. She thinks she's better than them. She's confident about her prospects as a competitor. She is full of herself. She isn't going to be BFF with Ash and Agnes with that quote. She's going to self-destruct because of her egomania.

But even then, she isn't tweeting about how ugly their costumes are, or mocking their movements or promoting a culture of pure gossip/snark regarding their skating. For me, that's the difference between that quote and the snarky posts by TSL and others.

There's a big difference between constitutive criticism and snark.

As for the haters tweet, I didn't see it as passive aggressive or diva-ish. I saw a hurt girl who had a bad competition. Who in their right mind would enjoy all that snark in real-time?

That said she will have to learn to be stronger and have a tough skin, but that tweet was just a raw reaction. Some PR training probably wouldn't hurt either.

I wish the best for Gracie this year, I'll just end it there.

cinnamon · Sep 19, 2013

One thing for sure is Gracie is stressed a lot now.
Another thing is, according to what I've seen till now, she is not trained how to answer the interview, like Sasha Cohen and others had this kind of training when they were climbing up to the elite skaters' spots. Also in Sasha's time for example, social media wasn't so popular, only her web master was making her web site. Gracie needs to know more how to use the media in the right way.

Mrs. P · Sep 19, 2013

cinnamon said:
One thing for sure is Gracie is stressed a lot now.
Another thing is, according to what I've seen till now, she is not trained how to answer the interview, like Sasha Cohen and others had this kind of training when they were climbing up to the elite skaters' spots. Also in Sasha's time for example, social media wasn't so popular, only her web master was making her web site. Gracie needs to know more how to use the media in the right way.

No joke. I'm sort of glad social media didn't exist (or wasn't prominent) when I was making mistakes in college/early career.

However, you're right that social media has a lot of power when you learn to use it correctly. The Shibutanis are a great example of this. I forget that Maia is only a year older than Gracie because she and Alex has been in the senior circuit for so long. She's handled her struggles in the last few years quite gracefully (along with Alex). Since Gracie is training at Canton at the moment, I hope that Maia and Alex are giving her guidance on how to deal with struggle/pressure.

Tonichelle · Sep 19, 2013

Mrs. P said:
Yes, I agree that USFSA should have been straight forward. And I also agree that their behavior has turned me off to their site. I'd rather support things like Manleywoman podcast. Allison Manley has done the interview podcast LONG before TSL and without the childish snark. (Her interview with Kori Ade is one of my faves).

ETA: That's not to say I don't think TSL has done good interviews, there's a few I've enjoyed, in particular the ones with Mary Beth Marley and Ashley Wagner. But I really feel the other stuff, i.e. the tweets and the gossip session videos, really dilute the power of those interviews.

Agreed. TSL had something going from them... and then their Pride took over... hasn't been really good since. ESPECIALLY after the USFSA dared to go against them.

Mathman · Sep 19, 2013

About Gracie's quote reported in the Christine Brennan article, she was just trying to compliment the other girls and it came out funny. No biggie.

aftertherain · Sep 19, 2013

Mrs. P said:
But even then, she isn't tweeting about how ugly their costumes are, or mocking their movements or promoting a culture of pure gossip/snark regarding their skating. For me, that's the difference between that quote and the snarky posts by TSL and others.

There's a big difference between constitutive criticism and snark.

Okay, I really need to stay away from this thread. As I am typing this, I don't think that's going to happen ...

While I am a fan of TSL, sometimes they do go a little overboard. However, I honestly don't remember them personally making twitter/Facebook statements "about how ugly [Gracie's] costumes are, or mocking [her] movements." I do, however, remember them re-tweeting what other people might have said (re: "promoting a culture of ...") because they re-tweeted a few things that their followers and Phil Hersh said. I also remember that they said something along the lines of "We feel like Gracie's team is trying to make her into something that she's not. We support Gracie."

TSL did say "snarky things" about other skaters though. I do remember this. And perhaps they said "snarky things" in their recap videos. Frankly, I'm not really up for re-listening to all of that just to prove (or disprove) a point.

Mrs. P · Sep 19, 2013

aftertherain said:
Okay, I really need to stay away from this thread. As I am typing this, I don't think that's going to happen ...

While I am a fan of TSL, sometimes they do go a little overboard. However, I honestly don't remember them tweeting "about how ugly [Gracie's] costumes are, or mocking [her] movements." I do, however, remember them re-tweeting what other people might have said (re: "promoting a culture of ...") because they re-tweeted a few things that their followers and Phil Hersh said. I also remember that they said something along the lines of "We feel like Gracie's team is trying to make her into something that she's not. We support Gracie."

TSL did say "snarky things" about other people though. I do remember this. And perhaps they said "snarky things" in their recap videos. Frankly, I'm not really up for re-listening to all of that just to prove (or disprove) a point.

ATR, yeah it's a waste of time and energy to do that, and I'm not out to put TSL out of business or tell people not to listen to them. I'm just explaining why I don't particularly care for them ATM.

cinnamon · Sep 19, 2013

What I meant was when Sasha Cohen was competing she wasn't approaching fans by tweet. Means everything was controlled by her web master.

FlattFan · Sep 19, 2013

Mathman said:
About Gracie's quote reported in the Christine Brennan article, she was just trying to compliment the other girls and it came out funny. No biggie.

I would like to congratulate you and a few others who posted in this thread. You deserve to post with me.

Matilda · Sep 19, 2013

cinnamon said:
Another thing is, according to what I've seen till now, she is not trained how to answer the interview, like Sasha Cohen and others had this kind of training when they were climbing up to the elite skaters' spots.

Frankly, I'd take Gracie's somewhat awkward comment over a well-rehearsed "good all-American girl" answer. I think one of the problems with US figure skating in recent years has been a seeming lack of personality in the skaters. I think the audience can relate to the skaters better when they come across as individuals with strong, distinct personalities rather than overly PC, well-oiled robots. If the USFSA wants to teach the skaters something outside skating, teach them to think on their own and to make their own judgements about how the world works (outside the rink, that is).

That's why the media has loved Johnny--he is always himself--sassy and witty--and he's fun to cover. I, for example, love Jason--apart from his skating, that is--for being Mr. Sunshine in his own inimitable way, and I love Ashley for her spunky personality, which shines on and off the ice. They are both interesting persons as well as athletes (and fun to follow on twitter!). Gracie is young, and I hope we'll see her develop a strong personality on and off the ice as well.

End of my defense of individuality in US figure skating

Mathman · Sep 19, 2013

^ See? You tried to compliment me, but somehow it came out sounding a little bit odd. :yes:

Mrs. P · Sep 19, 2013

Mathman said:
^ See? You tried to compliment me, but somehow it came out sounding a little bit odd. :yes:

Yes, actually FF, you were complementing my for my well-worded, eloquent posts, when I clearly know you feel the opposite. :laugh:

Icey · Sep 20, 2013

Mrs. P said:
Can you give me an example of when one of the other girls was deprived of an opportunity because of Gracie skating a poor program and getting held up for it? Can you give me a link that quotes Gracie saying that Ashley didn't deserve to be on the podium with her? I'm not selectively remembering things, I'm asking for a link. Examples.

She did't say ashley didn't deserve to be on the podium; she said "they deserve to be here with me". Somewhat on the arrogant side imo. Like all skaters she will be eating humble pie at some point and it might be sooner than later. All is not golden at the moment and a little tarnish cream ain't gonna fix things this year.

Quote:

"I just want to congratulate these other two women because they are amazing and they push me," she said. "They skated great short programs and really good long programs and they deserve to be here with me."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...sion-us-figure-skating-championships/1868265/

aftertherain · Sep 20, 2013

Icey said:
She did't say ashley didn't deserve to be on the podium; she said "they deserve to be here with me". Somewhat on the arrogant side imo. Like all skaters she will be eating humble pie at some point and it might be sooner than later. All is not golden at the moment and a little tarnish cream ain't gonna fix things this year.

Okay. What is wrong with being a little cocky? What is wrong with being good, knowing it, and letting everyone else know it once in a while? Don't athletes in other sports do that? At least she's not insulting her competitors.

I admit, like many others, I was like, "Whoa. Excuse me. What?" But then I thought about it a few months later. If I want skaters to be less PC, why should I hate on Gracie for saying what she thinks? I mean, other people just overdo it on the cockiness and that's when **** gets annoying. But on this one instance, I'm more inclined to believe that she's a teenager who isn't a natural public speaker (watch her interviews. Like, actually WATCH them) and got caught up in her newfound, but brief surge of confidence.

Gracie clearly thought she deserved to be on the podium, and she thought Ashley and Agnes did too. Now, whether she thought she should've won is a different matter entirely---people like to speculate and claim it a fact and use that "fact" to guide their emotions when she herself never said such a thing publicly.

FlattFan · Sep 20, 2013

aftertherain said:
Gracie clearly thought she deserved to be on the podium, and she thought Ashley and Agnes did too. Now, whether she thought she should've won is a different matter entirely---people like to speculate and claim it a fact and use that "fact" to guide their emotions when she herself never said such a thing publicly.

I think she deserved to win.

why should I hate on Gracie for saying what she thinks?

Is that where you're going? Should all teenagers say whatever that just pop up in their mind?
There's a social protocol and if you don't follow it, you are socially uncouth. What would Miss Manner say? Do people care for manner anymore? Or this is a part of "keeping it real" and "telling it like it is"
That's tragic if you want the young skaters to be "keeping it real"

aftertherain · Sep 20, 2013

FlattFan said:
Is that where you're going? Should all teenagers say whatever that just pop up in their mind?
There's a social protocol and if you don't follow it, you are socially uncouth. What would Miss Manner say? Do people care for manner anymore? Or this is a part of "keeping it real" and "telling it like it is"
That's tragic if you want the young skaters to be "keeping it real"

You ask me a few questions and then proceed to answer them all on your own.

Please, go on.

Though, may I suggest that you follow your own advice? Or rather, "my" advice?

Krislite · Sep 20, 2013

aftertherain said:
You ask me a few questions and then proceed to answer them all on your own.

Please, go on.

Though, may I suggest that you follow your own advice? Or rather, "my" advice?

Having been on the receiving end of his/her freely expressed invectives, can I say that it is rather rich to hear FlattFan talk about manners? Or would that be socially uncouth?

kwanatic · Sep 21, 2013

Mrs. P said:
I'm guess I'm talking more a general tone.

I just feel like the tweets analyze everything they hate about her program and how Frank needs to fix this or that. They did tweet a few reasonable things like when she jump a a good 3-3 or something, but again the snark really offsets that. They also retweeted a lot of other people's about Gracie's hair or "ugly costumes." or windmill arms.

You can say "That was a terrible program" without being snarky about it.

But where's the fun in that?

I don't think Dave and Jenny are trying to get a Pulitzer or any other type of legitimate media award. They are more the E! News/TMZ of figure skating than they are CNN. I think skating has enough CNN-like segments so I was completely thrilled for there to be a little TMZ added to the mix.

It's funny that people complain about figure skating being so unnaturally pristine and all of the answers are pageant-like and nobody shows any personality, yet so many get offended when someone actually speaks their mind. I feel that Dave and Jenny really bring that unfiltered honesty to figure skating with their commentary. Personally I greatly appreciate and love the snark. The media coverage that surrounds skating is so structured, controlled and, for lack of a better word, boring most of the time. Sometimes I just want to hear somebody be 100% candid and give their honest opinion....not the federation approved opinion that everybody repeats verbatim. TSL delivers their comments and criticism in a rather snarky and honest way and I love it. I don't care that they're a little mean or they mock certain people or laugh at them. I do too; that's why I think it's so funny and entertaining! In figure skating why do people feel the need to be so freaking nice and "politically correct" all the time? It's phony and ridiculous! But for some reason in this sport it is completely acceptable and almost preferred for people to be fake and hide their true feelings. Only say nice things about a skater and if you're going to criticize them, make sure you double sugarcoat it so their feelings don't get hurt :rolleye:

.

Tonichelle · Sep 21, 2013

That's all well and good - but E! and TMZ are not invited to certain events and in a lot of circles they aren't considered true journalism.

So if that's what TSL is then they need to "suck it up princess" and get over that they are not viewed as a legitimate news source and as such do not qualify for media credentials. Can't have it both ways.

FlattFan · Sep 21, 2013

aftertherain said:
You ask me a few questions and then proceed to answer them all on your own.

Please, go on.

Though, may I suggest that you follow your own advice? Or rather, "my" advice?

You took the bait.

Gracie Gold is without coach

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

cinnamon

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Mathman

aftertherain

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

cinnamon

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Matilda

Mathman

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Icey

aftertherain

FlattFan

Match Penalty

aftertherain

Krislite

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

FlattFan

Match Penalty

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