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Thread: Can Yuzuru Hanyu close the gap on Patrick Chan?

  1. #91
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's a good program, and the elements were very well executed, but he performed it like a junior coming up out of the ranks (which of course, he was at the time).
    Maybe it's my imagination, but I think the Eurosport guys compared the emergence of Hanyu to the emergence of Plushenko as a 15 year-old. His appearance is juniorish but I don't think his performance was.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Maybe it's my imagination, but I think the Eurosport guys compared the emergence of Hanyu to the emergence of Plushenko as a 15 year-old. His appearance is juniorish but I don't think his performance was.
    Plushenko was technically very solid as a 15 year old (and in general), but Hanyu has mounds more talent and artistry. His movements were junior-ish at the 2012 Worlds, but IMO, his choreography has always been better than Plushenko's ever was. He's more fluid, has actual transitions in between his jumps.

    I can picture them making that comparison due to Hanyu's potential to really dominate. Unfortunately he hasn't had the consistency that Plushenko has (few, if any, have). On his best day, these days, he could rival Chan (well, Chan with some errors), but he hasn't had many clean competitions. I hope we'll see a different Hanyu this season.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think he would have to be considerably cleaner than Patrick to win. Chan tends to get higher GOE and will certainly get higher SS and TR points. There are also a number of skaters, including Hanyu who can defeat even a perfect Plushenko. A Plushenko with 2 quads and 2 3A's will be very difficult for anyone, even Chan, to beat, though. I'm expecting bigger things from Fernandez and Hanyu. Even Ten I would expect bigger things. Obviously, we can't tell until people hit the ice. There's no telling that Chan/Yuzuru will get his act together, or if Plushenko will be able to do 2 quads again, or if Fernandez will be able to replicate his 3 quads, or if Ten can continue his success.
    Very true! Plushenko needs 2 quads and a great program to beat Chan or Fernandez or etc. In my opinion no home boost can replace the technical content and especially a healthy body.
    Hanyu needs more consistency to close the gap with PChan. Fernandez needs three quads , Chan needs to be clean.
    Let's see who's able to meet the requirements and win the OGM.

  4. #94
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    Well, I haven't read all posts, but I just wanted to say as Hanyu's fan that he admires and respects all Plushenko, Takahashi and Chan as great skaters

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Very true! Plushenko needs 2 quads and a great program to beat Chan or Fernandez or etc. In my opinion no home boost can replace the technical content and especially a healthy body.
    Hanyu needs more consistency to close the gap with PChan. Fernandez needs three quads , Chan needs to be clean.
    Let's see who's able to meet the requirements and win the OGM.
    Yup. However, if the guys skate as they did in this past Worlds, a clean Plushenko with only 1 quad should win. But it's unlikely to have the guys bomb so hard in an Olympic year. Who knows though, with everyone trying to win, the increased difficulty might result in more errors. I mean, it's not the easiest thing to do a program with 2 quads, 2 axels and a 3-3 sequence and hit everything.

  6. #96
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    After the outcry at worlds, I don't think any skater who falls two or more times (unless the others fall even more) is going to get an OGM.

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    To be honest, I am not sure and more leaning towards : unlikely as the answer to OP. The reason being Hanyu has some serious stamina issue. At the 2013 Worlds which I attended, it was obvious to everyone in the rink that Hanyu was struggling to complete his LP. He may have completed most of his elements, but he was so laborious and slow about it that the judges really couldn't hold him up because Hanyu became painfully slow in the middle of his skate. This may not have been terribly obvious on TV, but live, even people who aren't knowledgeable about skating could tell he was struggling.

    This isn't the first time Hanyu has this problem. When he is on, he can light up an arena. But when he struggles, he bombs very badly. Considering London isn't a high altitude place like Colorado Springs, I see no reason why Hanyu failed to condition himself properly.

    Sochi is not going be any easier because it can actually get quite humid in the sub-tropical environment. Granted, the arena will likely have filtered air, it makes you wonder if there is a place in this world where Hanyu can skate without falling victim of his own stamina / asthma issue?

  8. #98
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    Regarding Patrick, I was really impressed by his SP at 2013 worlds, not talking about LP, not debating should he win gold or not.
    Just really impressed by that one performance. That's it. So I think he is an artist at least in that performance.

    Further I emphasized I am not a particular fan of Patrick, just wanna point out that, that performance hit me by surprise.
    the same about Yuzu, since I am a fan of Yuzu (due to his musicality, personality etc...), I will bias towards Yuzu a bit if their performance on par. but on that day, Yuzu unfortunately is not at his best.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I am not a fan of Patrick's until I watched 13 worlds live, comparing with other skaters, his skating really is magical. especially that atmosphere he creates on ice using his whole body. It was so different from watching on TV or on computer screen. Comparing to other skaters even Dai (he is magical too), If I am a judge, I will give Patrick the highest PCS hands down. Now, I totally understand why judges like Patrick so much, because every time they watch him skating so close, they cannot escape his magic. All the audience around me feel the same. Patrick is not perfect on the screen. But he is indeed magical when watching him skating live.

    "total lack of emotion or passion in his skating" You would not want to say that if you watch his skating live. As least from the reaction of the audience near me, they all went completely silent, until the end of his SP, then with "tears" in their eyes and mumbling "magical, magical...” At least Patrick has won me over, a decade from now, I will recommend his SP to other people as one of the greatest artistic masterpiece performance in skating history.
    I have to say that I haven't seen this magical quality in him yet. I admire him but don't get the transported feeling I get from Daisuke. But your detailed description will help me to give Chan a harder look, and I'll specifically hunt for the SP to watch more closely. Thanks.

  10. #100
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    I understand why he said Orser. Exceptionally fully agree with him.
    IFS magazine:
    "I tell Yuzu especially not to read what is written about him on the Internet. Quite by accident, I stumbled upon a chat site and started reading the comments. Some people can be really nasty. These people have totally inaccurate information and write personal slams against people they have never met. I have told all of my students not to read what these people write, and, if they do, not to get wrapped up in it. Some people are just bullies."

  11. #101
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's a good program, and the elements were very well executed, but he performed it like a junior coming up out of the ranks (which of course, he was at the time).
    He didn't at all perform like a Junior, dude. His understanding of the music and his movement was far beyond a Junior and far beyond most other Senior competitors as well. Just look at his 3Lutz-2Toe combination at Worlds and how he is slightly off on the Lutz, but then goes on to add the combination with arms over his head and HOLDS his arms exactly in time with the music and then does turns and releases his arms with wonderful lyricism. Hanyu's program is filled with these moments and he excels not only with the introspective ones like this, but also with the fiery and explosive passages.

    I've never seen Patrick Chan do a competitive performance with that level of emotion and unity with the music, nor that level of range. Patrick's basic skating ability is so phenomenal that it generates excitement and interest on its own, but the way he uses his body is comparatively limited and his movement rarely feels like it is something he NEEDS to express and that he is driven by the music to express. He just doesn't have that artistic desire. I think he has definitely been trying hard to become a performer, but there are things you just can't teach. You have to be born with it or have life experiences that give you the insight/stimulus.

  12. #102
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    Plushy's quad lutz attemt in 2001 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEvVzq_uyA we can see his technic closely

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Plushy's quad lutz attemt in 2001 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEvVzq_uyA we can see his technic closely
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPSfJ1KMaUw <-- 7:28, on that 2Lz, I can sort of see what people mean by the pick is more onto the flat of the blade than other skaters' lutzes. I think for all intents and purposes it's a lutz, though as he's not pushing off the flat of the blade, he's vaulting off of the leg picking in.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPSfJ1KMaUw <-- 7:28, on that 2Lz, I can sort of see what people mean by the pick is more onto the flat of the blade than other skaters' lutzes. I think for all intents and purposes it's a lutz, though as he's not pushing off the flat of the blade, he's vaulting off of the leg picking in.
    as I understand a LUTZ jump, the picking leg is an assisting leg, the weight should not be transferred 100% to the picking leg. the left(jumping leg)also plays an important role in lutz jump.

  15. #105
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    Jeez, I knew this would happen. Anyway, as long as the judges would regard Plushenko's Luz as Luz, it is enough. Whether other people would have doubt is irrelevant.

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