Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 269

Thread: Can Yuzuru Hanyu close the gap on Patrick Chan?

  1. #181
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,061
    Hanyu was great at the Grand Prix Final, but I still think Chan is the front runner. For whatever reason, Chan had no zip last week. But IMHO Chan's effort at TEB remains the best men's performance of the season. Both Chan and Hanyu will have to come loaded for bear in Sochi. We'll see.

  2. #182
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,081
    Quote Originally Posted by cheerio2 View Post
    That guy Chan's spins are nothing to write home about, so if he's getting high GOE on them, he shouldn't be. Also, I'm confused. I didn't see Chan doing a 4S at GPF, so unless Chan is planning on doing one at Sochi, why should Hanyu? The idea that one person has to do a 4S and 4T plus two 3As to have a chance against someone with two 4Ts and one 3A (that are of worse quality) is the kind of thing that makes some people not consider figure skating a real sport.
    Yes, but as we know, skating is not all about the jumps. Otherwise, why did Goebel's 3 quads lose to Yagudin and Plushenko in 2002?

    I agree that the PCS gap really benefits top favourites. Certainly Yuzuru is a favourite to win Sochi (for a while he was my pick, although I think Chan's gotten himself together, but Yuzuru's 4S is a huge question mark).

    As far as quality goes, Patrick has excellent quality on his quads... I think due to his inconsistency with his 3A people assume the quality is bad, but when he lands it as good as he can, it's powerful. Yuzu certainly does his with more ease though. Spins wise, Chan has textbook basic positions and cross-foot too (the GPF crossfoot was quite out of the norm for him) -- not really many original/interesting positions, but not many of the men (other than Brown and Yuzu, really) have those. He also has an excellent death drop sit spin with huge height and extension, IMO. Both him and Yuzu have the best spins, IMO (with edge maybe going to Hanyu for his variety)... although ironically, they both occasionally have silly mistakes with them.

  3. #183
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    141
    I agree that jumps aren't everything. They do count for a lot though (see Tara vs Michelle!) I don't recall the exact comp you're referring to with Goebel, but Yagudin and Plushenko also had excellent jumps and usually were technically superior to the field when they won. At GPF, Chan's jumps looked solid for the most part but were smaller relative to Hanyu's. He did not have the difficult entrances that Hanyu had. In terms of artistry, I thought they were both similarly good. Chan certainly seemed like a very good skater, but I just didn't see any area where Chan was SO superior to the field that he should be allowed to do one less 3A and no 4S.

  4. #184
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    955
    ^^^Patrick does not seemed like a very good skater? He is the currently the best. Hanyu's skating skills is still below Patrick's and Daisuke's. He may have speed but he does not have the complex transitions.

    His jumps are just a good as Hanyu's and no means small as you propagated. Hanyu just had a 3A extra to raise his BV.

  5. #185
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,081
    Quote Originally Posted by cheerio2 View Post
    I agree that jumps aren't everything. They do count for a lot though (see Tara vs Michelle!) I don't recall the exact comp you're referring to with Goebel, but Yagudin and Plushenko also had excellent jumps and usually were technically superior to the field when they won. At GPF, Chan's jumps looked solid for the most part but were smaller relative to Hanyu's. He did not have the difficult entrances that Hanyu had. In terms of artistry, I thought they were both similarly good. Chan certainly seemed like a very good skater, but I just didn't see any area where Chan was SO superior to the field that he should be allowed to do one less 3A and no 4S.
    Chan has more refinement and maturity to his skating than Hanyu has yet to develop (though as he matures I believe he will). As the EuroSport guys said at TEB, Hanyu's was the skate of a boy whereas Chan's was the skate of a man. That's not to insult; it's just a different aesthetic ... like Tara being a girl and Michelle a woman. But if the technically more ambitious skater outskates a more mature skater they can certainly win as we saw in Nagano.

  6. #186
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    851
    CanadianSkaterGuy, you are overreacting too much.
    Even I think "perfect" Chan will beat perfect Hanyu. Many people (ISU/member federations except the Canadian) are not happy with the situation that the OGM is readily picked up by Chan, even with faulty performances. They ha learned the lessons from the farce of London worlds. Hanyu is expected to be a rivals to make the game more interesting and force Chan to skate with more seriousness. If Hanyu lands all jumps, Chan can't afford any major errors, anything bigger than one stepping out or a double salchow.

  7. #187
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,061
    Quote Originally Posted by cheerio2 View Post
    I don't recall the exact comp you're referring to with Goebel, but Yagudin and Plushenko also had excellent jumps and usually were technically superior to the field when they won.
    The 2002 Olympics. In the long program Tim Goebel did 3 quads, including a quad Sal in the second half, and two triple Axels.

    Plushenko did everything he could to make up for a fall in the short: 4T+3T+3Lo, 4T, and 3A+half-loop+3F.

    Yagudin did two quads but only one of his two planned triple Axels. Scott Hamilton. commenting on television, said that Yagudin was conceding the LP.

    Yagudin got first place ordinals from every judge and collected four 6.0s in presentation to win the gold.
    Last edited by Mathman; 12-09-2013 at 10:28 PM.

  8. #188
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,081
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    CanadianSkaterGuy, you are overreacting too much.
    Even I think "perfect" Chan will beat perfect Hanyu. Many people (ISU/member federations except the Canadian) are not happy with the situation that the OGM is readily picked up by Chan, even with faulty performances. They ha learned the lessons from the farce of London worlds. Hanyu is expected to be a rivals to make the game more interesting and force Chan to skate with more seriousness. If Hanyu lands all jumps, Chan can't afford any major errors, anything bigger than one stepping out or a double salchow.
    Did you see his scores at TEB? I don't think ISU members are that unhappy with Chan. I actually think Hanyu will quite possibly beat Chan if he goes clean in both programs (due to the technical advantage with his LP layout/BV). I'm just not sure Hanyu has it in him to do both quads and axels. He still has LP inconsistencies and his 4S has failed him thus far.

  9. #189
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,672
    Hanyu is now a legitimate threat. So yes to the OP's question.

  10. #190
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz
    In terms of GOE, Chan has better GOE in spins and steps, especially the latter. Hanyu isn't particularly impressive in terms of his spins or steps.
    And to know you are serious about that...
    Hanyu is a better spinner than Chan, quite often Chan gets higher GOE on his spins than he should. They're really close in GOE, like it or not.

  11. #191
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,081
    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And to know you are serious about that...
    Hanyu is a better spinner than Chan, quite often Chan gets higher GOE on his spins than he should. They're really close in GOE, like it or not.
    I'd say Hanyu has better variety to his positions, but Chan has more solid, clean positions and centering. They're both good spinners for various reasons.

  12. #192
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,081
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The 2002 Olympics. In the long program Tim Goebel did 3 quads, including a quad Sal in the second half, and two triple Axels.

    Plushenko did everything he could to make up for a fall in the short: 4T+3T+3Lo, 4T, and 3A+half-loop+3F.

    Yagudin did two quads but only one of his two planned triple Axels. Scott Hamilton. commenting on television, said that Yagudin was conceding the LP.

    Yagudin got first place ordinals from every judge and collected four 6.0s in presentation to win the gold.
    Yup, this is the example of a competition where a skater, Goebel, was (to use cheerio2's words) "technically superior to the field" with 3 quads and 2 triple axels, but lost due to less artistry and not being one of the favourites. Yagudin, while the least technically ambitious, had the best balance of jumps and artistry and certainly deserved the gold. His LP still stands as the hardest jumps landed by an Olympic champion, even if Plushenko and Goebel had harder jumps on the day.

  13. #193
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    730
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I'd say Hanyu has better variety to his positions, but Chan has more solid, clean positions and centering. They're both good spinners for various reasons.
    I have to agree that Chans centering is really solid. Hanyu has such a flexible body that his positions look amazing.

  14. #194
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,667
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The fact that Hanyu beat Chan at the GPF may help Hanyu in the PCS/GOE department. Like it or not, reputation does play a role in how the judges perceive skaters.

    Another aspect favorable to Hanyu: Sochi is a resort area, a cleaner environment for an athlete with asthma.
    Who knows what the air quality will be like by the time of the games? Great environmental damage is being done by preparation for the the games.

    http://ens-newswire.com/2013/02/11/d...mental-damage/

  15. #195
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    235
    A lot depends on whether Hanyu's PCS were a one time thing at a domestic event or he is now a member of the Chan/Takahashi/Fernandez club of PCS scores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The 2002 Olympics. In the long program Tim Goebel did 3 quads, including a quad Sal in the second half, and two triple Axels.

    Plushenko did everything he could to make up for a fall in the short: 4T+3T+3Lo, 4T, and 3A+half-loop+3F.

    Yagudin did two quads but only one of his two planned triple Axels. Scott Hamilton. commenting on television, said that Yagudin was conceding the LP.

    Yagudin got first place ordinals from every judge and collected four 6.0s in presentation to win the gold.
    Don't forget Goebel backloaded half his jumps, included a solo quad salchow. It really makes the quad controversy in 2010 much more hilarious since Plushenko fell on his quad in the short and only landed two in the FS during Salt Lake. He came out with a silver over Goebel who landed four clean quads across two programs.

Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •