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Thread: Can Yuzuru Hanyu close the gap on Patrick Chan?

  1. #61
    Yuzu Tracker msteach3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    After Nebelhorn, I'm wondering whether Patrick Chan can close his gap with Nobunari Oda
    I think one of Hanyu's best qualities is how he connects with the music. I'm not seeing that in Oda's LP although he skated very well. Japanese Nationals will be a dog fight for sure.

  2. #62
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    Oda will have to first get past japanese nationals.
    Besides historically Oda is an early season skater.
    This is true. And I would not be at all surprised if Oda does not get to go to the Olympics. However, his Nebelhorn performances were so lovely, I just had to stick in a word for him

    As to Japanese Nationals, and the subsequent choices of the Japanese federation for Sochi, I do wonder how the rules of the team event will play in their decisions.

    They have 3 spots. In the team event, a fed can choose to have one skater skate the SP and another the LP. It's possible that the 3rd spot for Japan will be filled by the best SP skater apart from the top 2, (or the best LP skater). AFAIR, the Japanese fed has quite a bit of leeway in whom they send to Worlds and Olympics and is not bound solely by the results of Japanese Nationals.

  3. #63
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    I saw Oda at Thornhill over a month ago and he had a lovely performance.
    He has had a full 9 months of prep as well. I wish him well but between Kozuka and Oda i enjoy the former more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    Evgeni's scoring potential has diminished a lot and skating on home ice can only help so much.
    I don't think it's diminished. I think it's actually improved since his overall skating and choreography has actually improved. However it hasn't improved to the artistic level of Takahashi and Chan (not that there's any shame in that) or the technical level of Hanyu/Fernandez/Reynolds who can all execute Plushenko's content and thensome. Plushenko will certainly have an advantage on home ice. It will be harder for the judges to award a skater like Takahashi or Chan a higher score if they make a small error or two compared to Plushenko, but if either of those two skate clean, they will surely pass Plushenko. Same with Javier and Reynolds thanks to his 3rd quad. Hanyu's 3A's are his main weapons, including his strong SP, and if he can get consistent quads he has the potential for a massive score that could surpass Plushenko.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    LOL I hope you arent even remotedly suggesting Plushenko is the caliber of skater he was in his prime from 1999-2006, as that would be simply ridiculous. As for scoring potential, considering a 170 LP in 2006 is basically the same as atleast a 190 today, that answer is easy too.

    Chan also is not a great "artistic" skater by any stretch. He is just lucky the judges have fallen so in love with his skating skills they overcome all, including massive technical inconsistency, numerous hard falls in many events, and total lack of emotion or passion in his skating. A decade or more from now when someone talks about the great artistic masterpiece performances and skaters in skating history Takahashi, Buttle, possibly Abbott, and Lambiel will be the skaters of this era references, never Chan.
    Plushenko is a better skater - as in all-around figure skater - now than he was in his "prime". He was certainly a better jumper back then, but that's about it. As for Plushenko's 2006 LP scoring 190 these days, with just 1 quad and a doubled flip, and minimal choreography? It's the Olympics, not Russian nationals. If you can honestly say his LP in 2006 (which was essentially just a jump fest which would never score even close to 90 points in PCS from any sane judging panel) was better than his LP at Euros in 2012, then I really can't take you seriously more than I already don't.

    Hah, you can keep crowing that Chan isn't a great artistic skater, and exaggerate his falls, and make wild assertions that he's hated, but the scores/wins say otherwise. You can continue to hate on him, but he still has 3 straight World titles, the World record scoring total and SP score, and - at his best - is without a doubt one of the best skaters in figure skating history. He doesn't even need to win the Olympics for that to be true.

  6. #66
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    Hah, you can keep crowing that Plushenko isn't a great artistic skater, and exaggerate his lack of transitions, and make wild assertions that his skating is only about jumps, but the scores/wins say otherwise. You can continue to hate on him, but he still has 3 Olympic medals, 3 World titles, 7 European titles, 4 GPF gold medals and is without a doubt one of the best skaters in figure skating history. He doesn't even need to win another medal at the Olympics for that to be true.

  7. #67
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    This is Hanyu's new free program, Romeo and Juliet (music by Nino Rota from the 1968 film). Wisely, he has retained the same short program, Parisienne Walkways, which he had so much success with last season

    What Hanyu lacked last season was consistency in his long program. He would regularly skate superb short programs (setting a new world record for the SP), only for it to all to fall apart in the free skate. His problems with asthma have always been a factor in terms of his stamina problems in the free skate, although according to this excellent article, he is now able to train for 3-4 hours a day. Youth and inexperience at the senior level probably also play a part. However, its been asked before, but with the start of a new season, does Hanyu have enough time to close the gap on Chan and overtake him before the 2014 Olympics?
    I hope *anyone* beats Chan to win the gold. Preferably D10 or Dai, but I would be happy to see Hanyu do it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Chan also is not a great "artistic" skater by any stretch. He is just lucky the judges have fallen so in love with his skating skills they overcome all, including massive technical inconsistency, numerous hard falls in many events, and total lack of emotion or passion in his skating. A decade or more from now when someone talks about the great artistic masterpiece performances and skaters in skating history Takahashi, Buttle, possibly Abbott, and Lambiel will be the skaters of this era references, never Chan.
    I am not a fan of Patrick's until I watched 13 worlds live, comparing with other skaters, his skating really is magical. especially that atmosphere he creates on ice using his whole body. It was so different from watching on TV or on computer screen. Comparing to other skaters even Dai (he is magical too), If I am a judge, I will give Patrick the highest PCS hands down. Now, I totally understand why judges like Patrick so much, because every time they watch him skating so close, they cannot escape his magic. All the audience around me feel the same. Patrick is not perfect on the screen. But he is indeed magical when watching him skating live.

    "total lack of emotion or passion in his skating" You would not want to say that if you watch his skating live. As least from the reaction of the audience near me, they all went completely silent, until the end of his SP, then with "tears" in their eyes and mumbling "magical, magical...” At least Patrick has won me over, a decade from now, I will recommend his SP to other people as one of the greatest artistic masterpiece performance in skating history.

  9. #69
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    I am not a fan of Patrick's until I watched 13 worlds live, comparing with other skaters, his skating really is magical. especially that atmosphere he creates on ice using his whole body. It was so different from watching on TV or on computer screen. Comparing to other skaters even Dai (he is magical too), If I am a judge, I will give Patrick the highest PCS hands down. Now, I totally understand why judges like Patrick so much, because every time they watch him skating so close, they cannot escape his magic. All the audience around me feel the same. Patrick is not perfect on the screen. But he is indeed magical when watching him skating live.

    "total lack of emotion or passion in his skating" You would not want to say that if you watch his skating live. As least from the reaction of the audience near me, they all went completely silent, until the end of his SP, then with "tears" in their eyes and mumbling "magical, magical...” At least Patrick has won me over, a decade from now, I will recommend his SP to other people as one of the greatest artistic masterpiece performance in skating history.
    I respect your opinion but.... I prefer skaters whose "magic" translate to my screen on Youtube, live, or whatever method you are watching. The softness of Chan's knees is exceptional and he floats on ice, but that is it. His Chanflation, arrogance, and poor sportsmanship do kill what talent he has. Plenty of people have said we should separate the person from their craft, but it doesn't work that way. Human beings are also emotional beings, and when things aren't right, emotions will have priority, not logic.

  10. #70
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Hah, you can keep crowing that Chan isn't a
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Plushenko is a better skater - as in all-around figure skater - now than he was in his "prime". He was certainly a better jumper back then, but that's about it. As for Plushenko's 2006 LP scoring 190 these days, with just 1 quad and a doubled flip, and minimal choreography? It's the Olympics, not Russian nationals. If you can honestly say his LP in 2006 (which was essentially just a jump fest which would never score even close to 90 points in PCS from any sane judging panel) was better than his LP at Euros in 2012, then I really can't take you seriously more than I already don't.
    great artistic skater, and exaggerate his falls, and make wild assertions that he's hated, but the scores/wins say otherwise. You can continue to hate on him, but he still has 3 straight World titles, the World record scoring total and SP score, and - at his best - is without a doubt one of the best skaters in figure skating history. He doesn't even need to win the Olympics for that to be true.
    But 2 of his World Titles are highly disputed.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Hah, you can keep crowing that Chan isn't a

    But 2 of his World Titles are highly disputed.
    Not to get into that whole debate again, but a fall on a double axel in his 2nd world title FS wasn't going to cost him, and most of the field made errors in his 3rd world title dispute and he won on the strength of a strong SP, 2 quads in his LP, and Denis Ten being his main competition (and Ten doubling two triples, at that). From a spectator standpoint, it looked as though Chan shouldn't have won 2012/2013 (and he likely wouldn't have under 6.0), but when you look at the points and the errors in the entire field over both segments of the competition, it's really not that surprising. A lot of the dispute comes from haters who can't stand the fact that he actually is getting rewarded for strong skating in between the elements. Yes, his PCS was high, but in his 2013 FS for example it was considerably lower than his usual PCS, not to mention Ten's PCS was also higher than deserved.

  12. #72
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Not to get into that whole debate again, but a fall on a double axel in his 2nd world title FS wasn't going to cost him, and most of the field made errors in his 3rd world title dispute and he won on the strength of a strong SP, 2 quads in his LP, and Denis Ten being his main competition (and Ten doubling two triples, at that). From a spectator standpoint, it looked as though Chan shouldn't have won 2012/2013 (and he likely wouldn't have under 6.0), but when you look at the points and the errors in the entire field over both segments of the competition, it's really not that surprising. A lot of the dispute comes from haters who can't stand the fact that he actually is getting rewarded for strong skating in between the elements. Yes, his PCS was high, but in his 2013 FS for example it was considerably lower than his usual PCS, not to mention Ten's PCS was also higher than deserved.
    You don't need to break it down again. It's been done many times to the point of pedantry. There will always be sore losers/winners and their fans. Not everyone will be happy with any result, but you can be sure that the amount of discontent expressed towards Chanflation is far more than usual even for a FS forum. Chan won 2013 so narrowly that hairsplitting and over-analysis won't mitigate the general suspicion that this particular event should have been judged more fairly. Yes, D10 shouldn't have doubled a triple and should have done a 3toe after the lutz; it was so narrow that these would have made the difference. However, should Chan have received such high scores for his SP? Then Chan started babbling to the media that he deserved the title with his "beautiful quads," not the first time he made a fool of himself in the media. I can see Chan being an overall better skater than D10, but I don't think he's that much better than Dai. Clearly, the judges thought so in 2012. With Chan I am unable to separate the craft from the person, especially when he keeps making stupid mistakes that are within his control to avoid.

  13. #73
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    Apology for a bit OF, but how about some granite for a change, you guys? Before the most nail-bitig GPs in the Oly season is about to start. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsS8ahym4ss
    This clip shows the very reason I just can't stop admiring boy skaters!

    Back to topic: Can Yuzuru close the gap on Patrick?
    Oh yes of course. So can other skaters. Goooo everyone! Winning OGM is the ultimate goal for ANY atheletes in the world. Bring your A game if you want to beat the reigning World Champ and/or get onto the Olympic podium which is YOUR dream place. Let the GP season begin!!!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    ROTFL that you think you have ANY credability when it comes to Plushenko when every single poster on this site is aware of the hate-on you have for him and for Kostner (which is FAR worse than the one you accuse me of having for Chan who I atleast am truthful on).
    Actually, most people here enjoy Chan's skating and consider him a fantastic skater, and one of the best ever. So you're the deluded one. But whatever, haters gonna hate. But there's always the satisfaction of your inevitable temper tantrum whenever Chan continues to do well, and then desperately try to convince everyone he's a bad skater.

    You're a hypocrite for accusing me of a hate-on for Plushenko and Kostner, particularly when I've said good things about them along with being critical of them. If I had a dime for every time you said something actually positive about Chan I wouldn't even have a nickel and 4 pennies.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Had Takahashi received equal or higher PCS to Chan in the LP, as he CLEARLY and beyond even the slightest doubt to any sane individual should have, he would have won, even with all else remaining the same.
    Yet again, you're wrong. Takahashi lost WC2012 by 6.45 points overall. In the FS, he was 4.36 points behind in PCS compared to Chan, so even if they had received the same PCS, Chan would have still won.

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