Greatest Pairs Skaters of all time? and best competitive amateur pairs programs? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Greatest Pairs Skaters of all time? and best competitive amateur pairs programs?

elle_e

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Gordeeva and Grinkov :) best team EVER.

I always thought of gorilla and flea as not just a difference in size but a difference in age. The Soviets especially would choose a very young girl to be partnered by a tall, mature male skater. (This was before age limits.) The most egregious example was Marina Cherkasova and Sergei Shakrai. I think she was twelve their first international year. They did amazing throws, as you can imagine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1b8NF9MhYs

The minute she grew a bit, they lost their edge (pun not intended).

In a way, Brasseur and Eisler were a different evolution of "gorilla and flea," because he was a hulking ex-hockey player, while she was so petite. But she was pretty much fully grown, so although Lloyd didn't have the finesse of Russian male skaters, he didn't look weird and unsettling next to Isabelle the way Chakrai did with his pre-teen partner. They did, however, belong to the "big tricks" school of skating.

The comments under the clips of Cherkasova/Shakrai are overwhelmingly negative though- does anyone know why? They did win an Olympic medal didn't they? My training mate and I were having this discussion because he's one of our coaches.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Gordeeva and Gribkov :) best team EVER.



The comments under the clips of Cherkasova/Shakrai are overwhelmingly negative though- does anyone know why? They did win an Olympic medal didn't they? My training mate and I were having this discussion because he's one of our coaches.

They did win an Olympic silver medal; I'd forgotten that. And also a world championship. I checked a couple of clips and see what you mean about the negative comments. While they were both technically strong, and Shakrai is a solid partner, they seemed to have no chemistry between them, in fact no connection at all, and in the early years of their partnership it was downright unsettling to watch them because of the size and age discrepancy. She was about 65 pounds when they started skating and was 12 years old. A grown man skating with a child to music, even if no romance was implied, gave a lot of people the creeps. This is not something either skater could help; I'm sure that in those days, their partnership was set up by the coach or the federation. Interestingly, in the 1979-80 season, she grew quite a few inches all at once--the announcer said four or five inches. She was at that point 15 years old. In 1980, when Babilonia/Gardner of the U.S. were injured and Rodnina/Zaitsev retired, Cherkasova/Shakrai won the world championship. The next year, when Marina was 16, they didn't even make bronze; they finished fourth. In 1982, they didn't even make the podium at Soviet nationals and didn't go to Worlds. They seem to have split up soon after.

So C/S have quite a track record, including several international medals (and of course the Olympic one), but their career was short, and it ended as soon as she was fully grown. The conclusion I draw is that their strengths depended almost exclusively on her size, and once she lost that advantage, they had no other superior skills as a pair. They were good skaters, of course, and their meticulous training would make either of them a good coach. But you can see from the clips that they didn't have either Rodnina/Zaitsev's commanding power or any particular artistic persona. Remember that the next Olympic cycle had Moskvina's first champion pair, Valova and Vasiliev, as well as Underhill and Martini of Canada. Chercasova/Shakrai couldn't keep up once they'd lost their throw triple jumps and gravity defying lifts.

What's he like as a coach? It must be amazing getting coached by an Olympian!
 

elle_e

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
They did win an Olympic silver medal; I'd forgotten that. And also a world championship. I checked a couple of clips and see what you mean about the negative comments. While they were both technically strong, and Shakrai is a solid partner, they seemed to have no chemistry between them, in fact no connection at all, and in the early years of their partnership it was downright unsettling to watch them because of the size and age discrepancy. She was about 65 pounds when they started skating and was 12 years old. A grown man skating with a child to music, even if no romance was implied, gave a lot of people the creeps. This is not something either skater could help; I'm sure that in those days, their partnership was set up by the coach or the federation. Interestingly, in the 1979-80 season, she grew quite a few inches all at once--the announcer said four or five inches. She was at that point 15 years old. In 1980, when Babilonia/Gardner of the U.S. were injured and Rodnina/Zaitsev retired, Cherkasova/Shakrai won the world championship. The next year, when Marina was 16, they didn't even make bronze; they finished fourth. In 1982, they didn't even make the podium at Soviet nationals and didn't go to Worlds. They seem to have split up soon after.

So C/S have quite a track record, including several international medals (and of course the Olympic one), but their career was short, and it ended as soon as she was fully grown. The conclusion I draw is that their strengths depended almost exclusively on her size, and once she lost that advantage, they had no other superior skills as a pair. They were good skaters, of course, and their meticulous training would make either of them a good coach. But you can see from the clips that they didn't have either Rodnina/Zaitsev's commanding power or any particular artistic persona. Remember that the next Olympic cycle had Moskvina's first champion pair, Valova and Vasiliev, as well as Underhill and Martini of Canada. Chercasova/Shakrai couldn't keep up once they'd lost their throw triple jumps and gravity defying lifts.

What's he like as a coach? It must be amazing getting coached by an Olympian!

Wow, thank you for the indepth response. It made a very interesting read. Sergei doesn't talk about himself much - we found out through wikipedia about his skating past :laugh: He's a dedicated coach, and has a great sense of humour, because all of his long-term students learn to mimic his accent. He's very humble, so even though he's had so many achievements in his past, he applauds when his students get the simplest of elements.

One a side note, I can't believe I forgot about Shen/Zhao - They are exquisite. I'm also a fan of Savchenko/Szolkowy, they're adorable!
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
elle_e:

Please tell us more about yourself... protecting your anonymity, of course.

I think it's great we have an active skater coached by a World Champion, and I'm interested in learning more about what it's like to train with him.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
elle_e:

Please tell us more about yourself... protecting your anonymity, of course.

I think it's great we have an active skater coached by a World Champion, and I'm interested in learning more about what it's like to train with him.

Agreed!

I'm glad to hear that Shakrai is such a good coach and a nice person. You could see from the clips that he was a really strong skater, and it must be such an advantage to learn from a man with his understanding of the sport. I think somewhere I read that his coach was Zhuk? You're practically learning from skating royalty!
 

elle_e

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
elle_e:

Please tell us more about yourself... protecting your anonymity, of course.

I think it's great we have an active skater coached by a World Champion, and I'm interested in learning more about what it's like to train with him.

Agreed!

I'm glad to hear that Shakrai is such a good coach and a nice person. You could see from the clips that he was a really strong skater, and it must be such an advantage to learn from a man with his understanding of the sport. I think somewhere I read that his coach was Zhuk? You're practically learning from skating royalty!

:laugh: I'm a figure skater from Australia - though you could have figured that out from Wiki, since Sergei coaches in Sydney. And with a little googling my rink and club. The internet is so revealing these days. He's been my part-time coach since mid-last year, my current coach is actually one of Sergei's former students. I started skating two years ago for leisure, and I don't compete because I'm too old for the normal stream, but not old enough for adult. It's 2:30am and I can't think of anything interesting. Sergei is a very encouraging coach - I've improved exponentially since being taught by him. But as I'm sure is a characteristic amongst many coaches, they laugh at me when I fall, after making sure I'm alright of course.

I think it says Zhuk was his coach on Wiki.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
That sounds like so much fun.

I think it would be great to learn to skate well, just for leisure and exercise... and to not be troubled by not being an active competitor.

It's what I do with golf. I love to play, and I'm reasonably good, but any suspicion that I'm on the prowl for a tour card is laughable.

Good on ya for investing in something that's just for you.

ETA: I've done a bit of travel, and Sydney is one of my favorite cities I've visited. Your post seems as open and authentic as the people I met during my visits.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
:laugh: I'm a figure skater from Australia - though you could have figured that out from Wiki, since Sergei coaches in Sydney. And with a little googling my rink and club. The internet is so revealing these days. He's been my part-time coach since mid-last year, my current coach is actually one of Sergei's former students. I started skating two years ago for leisure, and I don't compete because I'm too old for the normal stream, but not old enough for adult. It's 2:30am and I can't think of anything interesting. Sergei is a very encouraging coach - I've improved exponentially since being taught by him. But as I'm sure is a characteristic amongst many coaches, they laugh at me when I fall, after making sure I'm alright of course.

I think it says Zhuk was his coach on Wiki.

How lovely that you're able to work on your skating on a regular basis. It must feel like heaven when you perfect something new and get to skate it to music.

I've been very excited to read of Australia's growing presence in skating, and I hope that soon you will see someone bring home a world or Olympic medal. One day I'd love to get to Oz. It's been a favorite place of mine since seeing a movie set there when I was a child. I'd love to see all the Australian cities, though I gather that will involve a lot of flying since they're all on the outer edges of the continent and quite far apart from one another.

Since I'm a children's literature geek and don't get to talk to Australians much, I'll go off-topic and ask you if you ever read one of my favorite authors, Patricia Wrightson. Some of her books were published here in the U.S. She made it a goal to write fantasies based on Australian folklore rather than using European motifs such as unicorns and elves. I especially loved The Nargun and the Stars and the trilogy that started with The Ice Is Coming.

Back on topic, to Plushyfan, I agree that B/S had some of the best short programs ever. And isn't their Chaplin long program wonderful? They were a truly elegant pair, and a wonderful testament to Moskvina's coaching skills.
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Yes, plushyfan, my link as the Best ever SP also was the Lady Caliph from Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze performed in thy OG in Salt Lake City,
 

skaterdelight

Spectator
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Damn that was gorgeous! Thanks for posting. I had forgotten how absolutely beautiful they were. Brought tears to my eyes ... again. Cried the first time I saw it too.
 
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