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Thread: Philip Hersh Journalist?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    Tweet is not a journalistic media. It is simply a private thing and his tweeting was never a journalistic activity.
    In today's world, tweeting has become a tool of news organizations. When journalists tweet, or use any other form of social media, they are representing their news organization.

  2. #17
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Why is this man calling himself a journalist. No insight, objectivity or intelligent analysis he is lazy.

    On a day where Miki Ando made a comeback

    Ashley Cain had a good short program

    This is what he tweets

    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    Not good news for figure skating that the sport's only current great athlete, Kim Yuna of South Korea, sidelined by a foot injury

    Don't get me wrong Yuna Kim's injury is important news for the skating world, but for someone who calls him self a journalist to dismiss the efforts of other athletes with that ugly tweet explains why the sport is the way it is in the U.S

    People where complaining about TSL, but at least they don't take themselves so seriously.

    ... His tweet was so stupid Lynn Rutherford (icenetwork had to check him)
    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    ... And most journalists do have opinions - just like normal people. There is frankly no such thing as a journalist who doesn't have an opinion or preferences. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I do disagree with his assertion that Yuna is the "only great athlete" among all single skaters. However he does provide a good case for his reasoning in his follow up tweet:

    .... So I think Hersh has a case to make his opinion, even if I don't agree with it.
    If anyone wants to judge Hersh, I think the rest of his Twitter conversation with @LynnRutherford (see below) must be taken into consideration along with his original tweet quoted by Minze and the later one quoted by Mrs. P.
    To support his opinion, Hersh did offer what I would call "insight" and "intelligent analysis." Others are entitled to their own analyses and opinions, of course.
    (IMHO, his tweet was not "ugly" in the least.)

    @LynnRutherford
    @olyphil Come now - Virtue & Moir, Davis & White, Savchenko & Szolkowy not great? Or perhaps you are only speaking of ladies?
    7:09 AM - 26 Sep 13
    https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/s...31845212499969

    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    @LynnRutherford I meant great singles skater.
    7:10 AM - 26 Sep 13
    https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/383232085613219841

    @LynnRutherford
    @olyphil Okay. Guess assuming Plushenko is past it, and Chan has things yet to prove.
    7:11 AM - 26 Sep 13
    https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/s...32312416022530

    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    @LynnRutherford Yuna's 2010 Oly skates (and 2013 worlds skates) put her in a class by herself. It's like major leagues and Class AA
    7:13 AM - 26 Sep 13
    https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/383232778763923456

    Regarding TSL, for the record:
    - TSL's three tweets yesterday pertained to Yuna Kim, Elena Radionova, and Fleur Maxwell.
    - Nothing at all from TSL yesterday re Miki Ando or Ashley Cain.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    I dont have a problem with opinion journalism, but to dissmiss the effort of other athletes is unaceptable. Reporting about Kim Yunas injuries is news but declaring that the sport has no great athletes is lazy journalism
    Not only is it lazy journalism, but it is comments like his which are ultimately bad news for figure skating, because why would the general public want to seriously follow figure skating if they are made to believe that there is only one skater worth watching, and a skater who is not going to compete any longer after this season at that.

    It is his own personal opinion that he is entitled to have and share, but it is extremely dismissive of the talents and efforts of a number of talented athletes in both ladies and men's singles skating.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post

    Regarding TSL, for the record:
    - TSL's three tweets yesterday pertained to Yuna Kim, Elena Radionova, and Fleur Maxwell.
    - Nothing at all from TSL yesterday re Miki Ando or Ashley Cain.
    TSL's excitement over Elena Radionova shows excitement and optimism over the future talents of the sport at least, rather than the kind of constant doom and gloom which characterizes almost all of Phil Hersh's tweets and articles about figure skating with the exception of those having to do with Yuna.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I don't know. It's not Hersh's job to promote figure skating, It's his job to sell newspapers.

    In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.

  5. #20
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    In today's world, tweeting has become a tool of news organizations. When journalists tweet, or use any other form of social media, they are representing their news organization.
    Actually there isn't really a slam-dunk consensus in the industry on this. Yes, journalists are representing news organizations on Twitter, but there is debate whether that means the tweets they post should be a reflection of the employer/media outlet/publication.

    If you look at a lot of journalist's profiles you'll see a disclaimer that states "Tweets don't reflect my employer's view" or "My tweets/opinions are my own."


    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Regarding TSL, for the record:
    - TSL's three tweets yesterday pertained to Yuna Kim, Elena Radionova, and Fleur Maxwell.
    - Nothing at all from TSL yesterday re Miki Ando or Ashley Cain.
    OT: It's also worth noting that they didn't tweet or post on their FB about the Gracie Gold/Frank Carroll partnership being official either, which I find surprising given all the tweets/FB posts regarding this issue in the last few weeks.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know. It's not Hersh's job to promote figure skating, It's his job to sell newspapers.

    In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know. It's not Hersh's job to promote figure skating, It's his job to sell newspapers.

    In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.
    And can we say this talk (or should we say "tweet") is generating a bit of heat? Did it serve its purpose then?

    I would agree with others that a 140-character tweet should not be held to the same standards as a published journal article, which presents a narrative or argument with supporting facts or evidence or eye-witness/first-hand reports. The two are very different beasts.

  8. #23
    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    What is intelligent and insightful about declaring that a sport where the athletes leave their sweat and tears in training and with each performance does not have any good athletes except one.
    Yes Ashley Wagner you improved your skating and went from the almost girl to #1 in the U.S but you are not a great athlete
    Carolina after bombing at Oly and Worlds 2010 you became world champion but you are not a great athlete
    Miki Ando you are making a comeback after giving birth but you are not a great athlete
    Akiko Suzuki you persevere in the sport and finally made the world podium but you are not a great athlete
    and the list goes on.......

    I cant believe some people are not offended by the assumption that the sport they love have only ONE great Athlete. And although people are entitled to their opinion, they are also responsible for it. So, his comment was demeaning and rude.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.
    Of course he can. What is bothersome about the tweet was not that he said Kim was the greatest, which would imply that she was the greatest among other great names in the sport, but that she was "the only" great in all of singles skating.

    But in any case, based on his past record, little that he writes about figure skating need be taken too seriously by fans of the sport anyway. Hersh's main interest lies with whoever is on top at any given time. Were Yuna to have had poor results last Worlds, I have no doubt he would have written some exaggerated and pessimistic article all about it.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElleluvsL View Post
    Were Yuna to have had poor results last Worlds, I have no doubt he would have written some exaggerated and pessimistic article all about it.
    That is certainly true. Hersh loves, loves, loves Michelle Kwan, but he did not hesitate to hold her feet to the fire when she started to fall off the pace late in her career -- much to the outrage of Kwan fans everywhere.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    What is intelligent and insightful about declaring that a sport where the athletes leave their sweat and tears in training and with each performance does not have any good athletes except one.
    Yes Ashley Wagner you improved your skating and went from the almost girl to #1 in the U.S but you are not a great athlete
    Carolina after bombing at Oly and Worlds 2010 you became world champion but you are not a great athlete
    Miki Ando you are making a comeback after giving birth but you are not a great athlete
    Akiko Suzuki you persevere in the sport and finally made the world podium but you are not a great athlete
    and the list goes on.......

    I cant believe some people are not offended by the assumption that the sport they love have only ONE great Athlete. And although people are entitled to their opinion, they are also responsible for it. So, his comment was demeaning and rude.
    Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.

  12. #27
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.
    That's pretty much how I took it too, especially when he made that whole Major Leagues vs. Class AA comment.

    As I said, I don't necessarily agree with him, but I don't think he's off-base either.

  13. #28
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    Minze2001 you serious?

    I can't believe this is a serious thread. I found it hilarious there's even a thread created about this (and me even respond to it) has became a comedy of tragic proportions.

    Uh... Yes Phil is a journalist. Being paid to have an opinion on multiple national newspaper for a few decades might have something to do with it. It is called having a point of view. You don't have to like it, you don't even have agree with with it, but it is pure sourgrapes with the reasons you have given. Why not just scream 'i can't believe he report on sport only when they are dying children out there starving!!! He is not a real journalist!!'

    It all depends on your prerogative, I happen to think he shows great insights, objectivity and intelligent analysis from his latest tweets.

    I'd even say he is doing a marvelous job if you even bother to create a thread to bash him. For the record, i disagree with just about everyone: tiger mums, world famous professors, best friends, heads of states, pulitzer / turner prize winners, royalties, ceos, crazy bus drivers, big Steve down at the local fish and chip shop, I have disagreed with them all face to face....proudly, but I am not as weak as to question their profession/roles just because I can't handle a disagreement.

    Journalist / columnists are not required to be diplomats working for the UN. They are not school teachers or historians. Had they been, they'd be very boring to read and soon became irrelevant. The worst journalist are the ones with no view, cares more about political correctness instead of having the guts to express an unpopular view. Just like skaters, every time they go out there, they risk of being judged, scrutinized, criticized, or revered because it comes with the job description. Love it or hate it, it is all part of the free world we live in.

  14. #29
    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.
    Before you check me read my original post you can clearly see I meant to say Great one. So using semantics to correct me is not accurate. Also, did I say Ashley's is close to Yuna Kim's this thread is not about that. My point other athletes are Great for different reasons. And to say only one is great is demining to the sport and the athletes

  15. #30
    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Minze2001 you serious?

    I can't believe this is a serious thread. I found it hilarious there's even a thread created about this (and me even respond to it) has became a comedy of tragic proportions.

    Uh... Yes Phil is a journalist. Being paid to have an opinion on multiple national newspaper for a few decades might have something to do with it. It is called having a point of view. You don't have to like it, you don't even have agree with with it, but it is pure sourgrapes with the reasons you have given. Why not just scream 'i can't believe he report on sport only when they are dying children out there starving!!! He is not a real journalist!!'

    It all depends on your prerogative, I happen to think he shows great insights, objectivity and intelligent analysis from his latest tweets.

    I'd even say he is doing a marvelous job if you even bother to create a thread to bash him. For the record, i disagree with just about everyone: tiger mums, world famous professors, best friends, heads of states, pulitzer / turner prize winners, royalties, ceos, crazy bus drivers, big Steve down at the local fish and chip shop, I have disagreed with them all face to face....proudly, but I am not as weak as to question their profession/roles just because I can't handle a disagreement.

    Journalist / columnists are not required to be a diplomats working for the UN. They are not school teachers or historians. Had they been, they'd be very boring to read and soon became irrelevant. The worst journalist are the ones with no view, cares more about political correctness instead of having the guts to express an unpopular view. Just like skaters, every time they go out there, they risk of being judged, scrutinized, criticized, or revered because it comes with the job description. Love it or hate it, it is all part of the free world we live in.
    Yes, sir or mam dismiss my opinion but Philip is entitle to his. So, why are you responding, if you find this thread so silly. And Yes I am serious by his comment and opinion. Like I said, he is entitle to his opinion and I know what opinion journalism is about. But that was not good journalism. it was catty tweet by a lazy sports journalist.

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