Philip Hersh Journalist? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Philip Hersh Journalist?

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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
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I don't know. It's not Hersh's job to promote figure skating, It's his job to sell newspapers.

In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.

:clap:
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
I don't know. It's not Hersh's job to promote figure skating, It's his job to sell newspapers.

In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.

And can we say this talk (or should we say "tweet") is generating a bit of heat? Did it serve its purpose then? ;)

I would agree with others that a 140-character tweet should not be held to the same standards as a published journal article, which presents a narrative or argument with supporting facts or evidence or eye-witness/first-hand reports. The two are very different beasts.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
What is intelligent and insightful about declaring that a sport where the athletes leave their sweat and tears in training and with each performance does not have any good athletes except one.
Yes Ashley Wagner you improved your skating and went from the almost girl to #1 in the U.S but you are not a great athlete
Carolina after bombing at Oly and Worlds 2010 you became world champion but you are not a great athlete
Miki Ando you are making a comeback after giving birth but you are not a great athlete
Akiko Suzuki you persevere in the sport and finally made the world podium but you are not a great athlete
and the list goes on.......

I cant believe some people are not offended by the assumption that the sport they love have only ONE great Athlete. And although people are entitled to their opinion, they are also responsible for it. So, his comment was demeaning and rude.
 

ElleluvsL

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
In any case, Hersh can say Kim is the greatest, just like we we can say Hersh is an idiot. It's all just talk.

Of course he can. What is bothersome about the tweet was not that he said Kim was the greatest, which would imply that she was the greatest among other great names in the sport, but that she was "the only" great in all of singles skating.

But in any case, based on his past record, little that he writes about figure skating need be taken too seriously by fans of the sport anyway. Hersh's main interest lies with whoever is on top at any given time. Were Yuna to have had poor results last Worlds, I have no doubt he would have written some exaggerated and pessimistic article all about it.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Were Yuna to have had poor results last Worlds, I have no doubt he would have written some exaggerated and pessimistic article all about it.

:yes: That is certainly true. Hersh loves, loves, loves Michelle Kwan, but he did not hesitate to hold her feet to the fire when she started to fall off the pace late in her career -- much to the outrage of Kwan fans everywhere. :laugh:
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
What is intelligent and insightful about declaring that a sport where the athletes leave their sweat and tears in training and with each performance does not have any good athletes except one.
Yes Ashley Wagner you improved your skating and went from the almost girl to #1 in the U.S but you are not a great athlete
Carolina after bombing at Oly and Worlds 2010 you became world champion but you are not a great athlete
Miki Ando you are making a comeback after giving birth but you are not a great athlete
Akiko Suzuki you persevere in the sport and finally made the world podium but you are not a great athlete
and the list goes on.......

I cant believe some people are not offended by the assumption that the sport they love have only ONE great Athlete. And although people are entitled to their opinion, they are also responsible for it. So, his comment was demeaning and rude.

Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.

That's pretty much how I took it too, especially when he made that whole Major Leagues vs. Class AA comment.

As I said, I don't necessarily agree with him, but I don't think he's off-base either.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
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Mar 23, 2010
Minze2001 you serious?

I can't believe this is a serious thread. I found it hilarious there's even a thread created about this (and me even respond to it) has became a comedy of tragic proportions.

Uh... Yes Phil is a journalist. Being paid to have an opinion on multiple national newspaper for a few decades might have something to do with it. It is called having a point of view. You don't have to like it, you don't even have agree with with it, but it is pure sourgrapes with the reasons you have given. Why not just scream 'i can't believe he report on sport only when they are dying children out there starving!!! He is not a real journalist!!'

It all depends on your prerogative, I happen to think he shows great insights, objectivity and intelligent analysis from his latest tweets. :laugh:

I'd even say he is doing a marvelous job if you even bother to create a thread to bash him. For the record, i disagree with just about everyone: tiger mums, world famous professors, best friends, heads of states, pulitzer / turner prize winners, royalties, ceos, crazy bus drivers, big Steve down at the local fish and chip shop, I have disagreed with them all face to face....proudly, but I am not as weak as to question their profession/roles just because I can't handle a disagreement.

Journalist / columnists are not required to be diplomats working for the UN. They are not school teachers or historians. Had they been, they'd be very boring to read and soon became irrelevant. The worst journalist are the ones with no view, cares more about political correctness instead of having the guts to express an unpopular view. Just like skaters, every time they go out there, they risk of being judged, scrutinized, criticized, or revered because it comes with the job description. Love it or hate it, it is all part of the free world we live in.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.

Before you check me read my original post you can clearly see I meant to say Great one. So using semantics to correct me is not accurate. Also, did I say Ashley's is close to Yuna Kim's this thread is not about that. My point other athletes are Great for different reasons. And to say only one is great is demining to the sport and the athletes
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Minze2001 you serious?

I can't believe this is a serious thread. I found it hilarious there's even a thread created about this (and me even respond to it) has became a comedy of tragic proportions.

Uh... Yes Phil is a journalist. Being paid to have an opinion on multiple national newspaper for a few decades might have something to do with it. It is called having a point of view. You don't have to like it, you don't even have agree with with it, but it is pure sourgrapes with the reasons you have given. Why not just scream 'i can't believe he report on sport only when they are dying children out there starving!!! He is not a real journalist!!'

It all depends on your prerogative, I happen to think he shows great insights, objectivity and intelligent analysis from his latest tweets. :laugh:

I'd even say he is doing a marvelous job if you even bother to create a thread to bash him. For the record, i disagree with just about everyone: tiger mums, world famous professors, best friends, heads of states, pulitzer / turner prize winners, royalties, ceos, crazy bus drivers, big Steve down at the local fish and chip shop, I have disagreed with them all face to face....proudly, but I am not as weak as to question their profession/roles just because I can't handle a disagreement.

Journalist / columnists are not required to be a diplomats working for the UN. They are not school teachers or historians. Had they been, they'd be very boring to read and soon became irrelevant. The worst journalist are the ones with no view, cares more about political correctness instead of having the guts to express an unpopular view. Just like skaters, every time they go out there, they risk of being judged, scrutinized, criticized, or revered because it comes with the job description. Love it or hate it, it is all part of the free world we live in.

Yes, sir or mam dismiss my opinion but Philip is entitle to his. So, why are you responding, if you find this thread so silly. And Yes I am serious by his comment and opinion. Like I said, he is entitle to his opinion and I know what opinion journalism is about. But that was not good journalism. it was catty tweet by a lazy sports journalist.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Before you check me read my original post you can clearly see I meant to say Great one. So using semantics to correct me is not accurate. Also, did I say Ashley's is close to Yuna Kim's this thread is not about that. My point other athletes are Great for different reasons. And to say only one is great is demining to the sport and the athletes

But when people look back at sports history, they don't usually say "Oh this athlete was great in this way" or "That athlete was great in this other way."

They state that they were great, as in exemplary. I think in Phil's eyes, Yuna is the current "great" alone because of an amazing track record that no other athlete is close to matching. Mao for her amazing jumps and grace has been OTP 3 out of 7 times at Worlds. Patrick has yet to win an Olympic medal.

So he's not saying that Ashley, et al aren't "great" it's that they aren't Great with a capital G. I mean seriously, I'm sure there were amazing players in Jackie Robertson's time in baseball, but historians has put Jackie as one of the GREATS. Same with Michael Jordan. Michael Phelps in swimming. Serena Williams in women's tennis. And so on.

Speaking of which, he tweeted this:

One of 7627 reasons why Yuna Kim in class of her own: Second world title put Kim on podium in all her 30 intnl competitions, sr/jr -21 wins


As I said I disagree with Phil. I think when people in this sport look back at the last two Olympic quads, they will state that Yuna AND Mao were among the greats, despite Mao's struggles.

But I also disagree with the assessment that it was a baseless tweet. There are many folks who believe that Yuna stands in a class of her own, not just Phil, because of the reasons I stated above.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Yes, sir or mam dismiss my opinion but Philip is entitle to his. So, why are you responding, if you find this thread so silly. And Yes I am serious by his comment and opinion. Like I said, he is entitle to his opinion and I know what opinion journalism is about. But that was not good journalism. it was catty tweet by a lazy sports journalist.

Well.. it sure is amazing what response one get from a simple tweet of 140 characters and less. Please do write to Chicago Tribune to report your legitimate complaint.
(Tsk tsk tsk Phil, you are so lazy, you should have word your tweet much more carefully.)

A TRUE journalist tweet should be

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
<strike>Not good</strike><insert>Great</insert> news for figure skating <insert>ladies</insert> that the sport's <strike strike> only current great athlete, </strike + ignore + banned term forever> Kim Yuna of South Korea is sidelined by a foot injury.

Immediately followed by
Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
Now a far bigger news! Great Miki Ando returns to wild excitement that no one outside Japan is reporting. No REAL journalist left! Visit GS for latest translation.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
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Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.

:clap:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Well.. it sure is amazing what response one get from a simple tweet of 140 characters and less. Please do write to Chicago Tribune to report your legitimate complaint.
(Tsk tsk tsk Phil, you are so lazy, you should have word your tweet much more carefully.)

A TRUE journalist tweet should be

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
<strike>Not good</strike><insert>Great</insert> news for figure skating <insert>ladies</insert> that the sport's <strike strike> only current great athlete, </strike + ignore + banned term forever> Kim Yuna of South Korea is sidelined by a foot injury.

:laugh::rofl:
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Joined
Feb 27, 2012
So he's not saying that Ashley, et al aren't "great" it's that they aren't Great with a capital G. I mean seriously, I'm sure there were amazing players in Jackie Robertson's time in baseball, but historians has put Jackie as one of the GREATS. Same with Michael Jordan. Michael Phelps in swimming. Serena Williams in women's tennis. And so on.

.... There are many folks who believe that Yuna stands in a class of her own, not just Phil because of the reasons I stated above.

FWIW, the Yuna Kim/Michael Jordan analogy is apt in Max Aaron's opinion. What he said in his reddit AMA two months ago:

Q: What do you think about the S.Korean goddess, Yuna? Think you could out figure-skate her?

MaxTAaron: She's just on a different level. She could be the Michael Jordan of figure skating right now.

 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Well.. it sure is amazing what response one get from a simple tweet of 140 characters and less. Please do write to Chicago Tribune to report your legitimate complaint.
(Tsk tsk tsk Phil, you are so lazy, you should have word your tweet much more carefully.)

A TRUE journalist tweet should be

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
<strike>Not good</strike><insert>Great</insert> news for figure skating <insert>ladies</insert> that the sport's <strike strike> only current great athlete, </strike + ignore + banned term forever> Kim Yuna of South Korea is sidelined by a foot injury.

Immediately followed by
Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
Now a far bigger news! Great Miki Ando returns to wild excitement that no one outside Japan is reporting. No REAL journalist left! Visit GS for latest translation.

Question if you find this thread so silly why bother responding. First, your missing my point and your attempt for humor is as always condescending.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
And the Michael Jordan analogy is not working for me. Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of his generation according to some people, but people who know about the game and sport writers would have never said he was the only great athlete. Because a good sport writer would have known about Scotty Pippen and other players who were also great.

If I remember correctly some people were complaining about TLS been catty and gossipy well check the time line of the great journalist, his remarks about skaters are catty, just like people accused TLS of being.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
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And the Michael Jordan analogy is not working for me. Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of his generation according to some people, but people who know about the game and sport writers would have never said he was the only great athlete. Because a good sport writer would have known about Scotty Pippen and other players who were also great.

If I remember correctly some people were complaining about TLS been catty and gossipy well check the time line of the great journalist, his remarks about skaters are catty, just like people accused TLS of being.


I don't see Phil's comment as catty. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Phil's definitely had his share of snark and, as I said a billion times, I DISAGREE with his opinions 99 percent of the time, including THIS ONE, but I don't agree that this is some sort of gossipy tweet.

Now, if he tweeted "Oh Yuna is the only current great athlete in singles skating. Everyone else SUCKS and might as well go home.." or "I don't want to watch Nebelhorn because none of them are great athletes like Yuna!" then maybe there would be a case.

But he didn't. In fact he tweeted:
Encouraging comeback skate for 2-time world champ Miki Ando of Japan at Nebelhorn. She looks utterly spent

Miki was pretty good. I just think its a good start for her. Under rotations presumably can be cured later

Now if I was going to nitpik and be outraged by any of Phil's tweet, it would be this one RE: Elena Radionova:

Elena Radionova looks as if she weighs 18 pounds

My view point: Why don't you pick on someone your own size, then. :biggrin:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Radianova :rock: does look like she weighs about 18 pounds. :biggrin:

But hey, I'm with Minze. Mr. Hersh should have said, "Oh what a shame, the greatest skater in the game is now injured." That way he could have expressed his opinion without being dismissive of the other competitors.

Is this important? Yeah, kind of. You should always avoid hurting people's feelings if you can. :yes:
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
What is intelligent and insightful about declaring that a sport where the athletes leave their sweat and tears in training and with each performance does not have any good athletes except one.
Yes Ashley Wagner you improved your skating and went from the almost girl to #1 in the U.S but you are not a great athlete
Carolina after bombing at Oly and Worlds 2010 you became world champion but you are not a great athlete
Miki Ando you are making a comeback after giving birth but you are not a great athlete
Akiko Suzuki you persevere in the sport and finally made the world podium but you are not a great athlete
and the list goes on.......

I cant believe some people are not offended by the assumption that the sport they love have only ONE great Athlete. And although people are entitled to their opinion, they are also responsible for it. So, his comment was demeaning and rude.

LOL

Seriously? You want to compare Ashley's resume to Yuna's and insist that they're comparable?

Hmm...Let's see...

Yuna - 1st female skater to surpass the 140 & 150-pts in LP. 1st female skater to surpass the 200-pt total mark. Never finished off the podium in her entire career (novice, jr & sr). 2 WC gold, 2 WC silver, 2 WC bronze, 3 GPF gold, 1 GPF silver, 1 4CC gold, 1 OGM. Current record holder for SP, LP & combined scores.

Ashley - 0 WC medal, 1 4CC gold, 1 GPF silver

Carolina - She should have a much more impressive resume than Yuna (given her incredibly long competitive history), but she won her 1st WC gold 2 seasons ago. 1 WC gold, 2 WC silver, 2 WC bronze, 5 Euro golds, 2 Euro silver, 1 Euro bronze, 1 GPF gold, 1 GPF silver, 2 GPF bronze. (She did the best in the season when Yuna sat out...)

Akiko Suzuki's resume is also pretty anemic (partly due to her federation not supporting her). 1 WC bronze, 2 4CC silver, 1 GPF silevr, 2 GPF bronze.

Miki -- Making a comeback in and of itself doesn't make you GREAT by default. You have to deliver. Miki hasn't delivered...yet. Also despite her long competitive history, she has 2 WC gold, 1 WC bronze, 1 4CC gold, 1 4CC bronze, 1 GPF silver.

I think they're GOOD athletes, but GREAT athletes? I'm not so sure based on their competitive results.
 
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