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Thread: Philip Hersh Journalist?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Before you check me read my original post you can clearly see I meant to say Great one. So using semantics to correct me is not accurate. Also, did I say Ashley's is close to Yuna Kim's this thread is not about that. My point other athletes are Great for different reasons. And to say only one is great is demining to the sport and the athletes
    But when people look back at sports history, they don't usually say "Oh this athlete was great in this way" or "That athlete was great in this other way."

    They state that they were great, as in exemplary. I think in Phil's eyes, Yuna is the current "great" alone because of an amazing track record that no other athlete is close to matching. Mao for her amazing jumps and grace has been OTP 3 out of 7 times at Worlds. Patrick has yet to win an Olympic medal.

    So he's not saying that Ashley, et al aren't "great" it's that they aren't Great with a capital G. I mean seriously, I'm sure there were amazing players in Jackie Robertson's time in baseball, but historians has put Jackie as one of the GREATS. Same with Michael Jordan. Michael Phelps in swimming. Serena Williams in women's tennis. And so on.

    Speaking of which, he tweeted this:

    One of 7627 reasons why Yuna Kim in class of her own: Second world title put Kim on podium in all her 30 intnl competitions, sr/jr -21 wins

    As I said I disagree with Phil. I think when people in this sport look back at the last two Olympic quads, they will state that Yuna AND Mao were among the greats, despite Mao's struggles.

    But I also disagree with the assessment that it was a baseless tweet. There are many folks who believe that Yuna stands in a class of her own, not just Phil, because of the reasons I stated above.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Yes, sir or mam dismiss my opinion but Philip is entitle to his. So, why are you responding, if you find this thread so silly. And Yes I am serious by his comment and opinion. Like I said, he is entitle to his opinion and I know what opinion journalism is about. But that was not good journalism. it was catty tweet by a lazy sports journalist.
    Well.. it sure is amazing what response one get from a simple tweet of 140 characters and less. Please do write to Chicago Tribune to report your legitimate complaint.
    (Tsk tsk tsk Phil, you are so lazy, you should have word your tweet much more carefully.)

    A TRUE journalist tweet should be

    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    <strike>Not good</strike><insert>Great</insert> news for figure skating <insert>ladies</insert> that the sport's <strike strike> only current great athlete, </strike + ignore + banned term forever> Kim Yuna of South Korea is sidelined by a foot injury.

    Immediately followed by
    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    Now a far bigger news! Great Miki Ando returns to wild excitement that no one outside Japan is reporting. No REAL journalist left! Visit GS for latest translation.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    Actually, he said "great" not "good". Big difference. There are many good qb's in the NFL, but only a few truly great ones. No one thinks that football is degraded when that fact is acknowledged. Truly great athletes are the few among many in every sport and most sports fans and writers understand that they don't come along every day. Ashley Wagner is good, but her resume next to Yuna Kim's is nothing. I think Ashley may even be willing to acknowledge that and that doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to beat her, either.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Well.. it sure is amazing what response one get from a simple tweet of 140 characters and less. Please do write to Chicago Tribune to report your legitimate complaint.
    (Tsk tsk tsk Phil, you are so lazy, you should have word your tweet much more carefully.)

    A TRUE journalist tweet should be

    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    <strike>Not good</strike><insert>Great</insert> news for figure skating <insert>ladies</insert> that the sport's <strike strike> only current great athlete, </strike + ignore + banned term forever> Kim Yuna of South Korea is sidelined by a foot injury.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    So he's not saying that Ashley, et al aren't "great" it's that they aren't Great with a capital G. I mean seriously, I'm sure there were amazing players in Jackie Robertson's time in baseball, but historians has put Jackie as one of the GREATS. Same with Michael Jordan. Michael Phelps in swimming. Serena Williams in women's tennis. And so on.

    .... There are many folks who believe that Yuna stands in a class of her own, not just Phil because of the reasons I stated above.
    FWIW, the Yuna Kim/Michael Jordan analogy is apt in Max Aaron's opinion. What he said in his reddit AMA two months ago:

    Q: What do you think about the S.Korean goddess, Yuna? Think you could out figure-skate her?

    MaxTAaron: She's just on a different level. She could be the Michael Jordan of figure skating right now.


  6. #36
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Well.. it sure is amazing what response one get from a simple tweet of 140 characters and less. Please do write to Chicago Tribune to report your legitimate complaint.
    (Tsk tsk tsk Phil, you are so lazy, you should have word your tweet much more carefully.)

    A TRUE journalist tweet should be

    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    <strike>Not good</strike><insert>Great</insert> news for figure skating <insert>ladies</insert> that the sport's <strike strike> only current great athlete, </strike + ignore + banned term forever> Kim Yuna of South Korea is sidelined by a foot injury.

    Immediately followed by
    Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
    Now a far bigger news! Great Miki Ando returns to wild excitement that no one outside Japan is reporting. No REAL journalist left! Visit GS for latest translation.
    Question if you find this thread so silly why bother responding. First, your missing my point and your attempt for humor is as always condescending.

  7. #37
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    And the Michael Jordan analogy is not working for me. Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of his generation according to some people, but people who know about the game and sport writers would have never said he was the only great athlete. Because a good sport writer would have known about Scotty Pippen and other players who were also great.

    If I remember correctly some people were complaining about TLS been catty and gossipy well check the time line of the great journalist, his remarks about skaters are catty, just like people accused TLS of being.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    And the Michael Jordan analogy is not working for me. Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of his generation according to some people, but people who know about the game and sport writers would have never said he was the only great athlete. Because a good sport writer would have known about Scotty Pippen and other players who were also great.

    If I remember correctly some people were complaining about TLS been catty and gossipy well check the time line of the great journalist, his remarks about skaters are catty, just like people accused TLS of being.

    I don't see Phil's comment as catty. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Phil's definitely had his share of snark and, as I said a billion times, I DISAGREE with his opinions 99 percent of the time, including THIS ONE, but I don't agree that this is some sort of gossipy tweet.

    Now, if he tweeted "Oh Yuna is the only current great athlete in singles skating. Everyone else SUCKS and might as well go home.." or "I don't want to watch Nebelhorn because none of them are great athletes like Yuna!" then maybe there would be a case.

    But he didn't. In fact he tweeted:
    Encouraging comeback skate for 2-time world champ Miki Ando of Japan at Nebelhorn. She looks utterly spent
    Miki was pretty good. I just think its a good start for her. Under rotations presumably can be cured later
    Now if I was going to nitpik and be outraged by any of Phil's tweet, it would be this one RE: Elena Radionova:

    Elena Radionova looks as if she weighs 18 pounds
    My view point: Why don't you pick on someone your own size, then.

  9. #39
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    Radianova does look like she weighs about 18 pounds.

    But hey, I'm with Minze. Mr. Hersh should have said, "Oh what a shame, the greatest skater in the game is now injured." That way he could have expressed his opinion without being dismissive of the other competitors.

    Is this important? Yeah, kind of. You should always avoid hurting people's feelings if you can.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    What is intelligent and insightful about declaring that a sport where the athletes leave their sweat and tears in training and with each performance does not have any good athletes except one.
    Yes Ashley Wagner you improved your skating and went from the almost girl to #1 in the U.S but you are not a great athlete
    Carolina after bombing at Oly and Worlds 2010 you became world champion but you are not a great athlete
    Miki Ando you are making a comeback after giving birth but you are not a great athlete
    Akiko Suzuki you persevere in the sport and finally made the world podium but you are not a great athlete
    and the list goes on.......

    I cant believe some people are not offended by the assumption that the sport they love have only ONE great Athlete. And although people are entitled to their opinion, they are also responsible for it. So, his comment was demeaning and rude.
    LOL

    Seriously? You want to compare Ashley's resume to Yuna's and insist that they're comparable?

    Hmm...Let's see...

    Yuna - 1st female skater to surpass the 140 & 150-pts in LP. 1st female skater to surpass the 200-pt total mark. Never finished off the podium in her entire career (novice, jr & sr). 2 WC gold, 2 WC silver, 2 WC bronze, 3 GPF gold, 1 GPF silver, 1 4CC gold, 1 OGM. Current record holder for SP, LP & combined scores.

    Ashley - 0 WC medal, 1 4CC gold, 1 GPF silver

    Carolina - She should have a much more impressive resume than Yuna (given her incredibly long competitive history), but she won her 1st WC gold 2 seasons ago. 1 WC gold, 2 WC silver, 2 WC bronze, 5 Euro golds, 2 Euro silver, 1 Euro bronze, 1 GPF gold, 1 GPF silver, 2 GPF bronze. (She did the best in the season when Yuna sat out...)

    Akiko Suzuki's resume is also pretty anemic (partly due to her federation not supporting her). 1 WC bronze, 2 4CC silver, 1 GPF silevr, 2 GPF bronze.

    Miki -- Making a comeback in and of itself doesn't make you GREAT by default. You have to deliver. Miki hasn't delivered...yet. Also despite her long competitive history, she has 2 WC gold, 1 WC bronze, 1 4CC gold, 1 4CC bronze, 1 GPF silver.

    I think they're GOOD athletes, but GREAT athletes? I'm not so sure based on their competitive results.

  11. #41
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    FWIW, the Yuna Kim/Michael Jordan analogy is apt in Max Aaron's opinion. What he said in his reddit AMA two months ago:

    Q: What do you think about the S.Korean goddess, Yuna? Think you could out figure-skate her?

    MaxTAaron: She's just on a different level. She could be the Michael Jordan of figure skating right now.

    What does Max Aaron know about figure skating? He needs to read what Minze2001 thinks about his ignorant opinion. :-P

  12. #42
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    LOL

    Seriously? You want to compare Ashley's resume to Yuna's and insist that they're comparable?

    Hmm...Let's see...
    U

    Yuna - 1st female skater to surpass the 140 & 150-pts in LP. 1st female skater to surpass the 200-pt total mark. Never finished off the podium in her entire career (novice, jr & sr). 2 WC gold, 2 WC silver, 2 WC bronze, 3 GPF gold, 1 GPF silver, 1 4CC gold, 1 OGM. Current record holder for SP, LP & combined scores.

    Ashley - 0 WC medal, 1 4CC gold, 1 GPF silver

    Carolina - She should have a much more impressive resume than Yuna (given her incredibly long competitive history), but she won her 1st WC gold 2 seasons ago. 1 WC gold, 2 WC silver, 2 WC bronze, 5 Euro golds, 2 Euro silver, 1 Euro bronze, 1 GPF gold, 1 GPF silver, 2 GPF bronze. (She did the best in the season when Yuna sat out...)

    Akiko Suzuki's resume is also pretty anemic (partly due to her federation not supporting her). 1 WC bronze, 2 4CC silver, 1 GPF silevr, 2 GPF bronze.

    Miki -- Making a comeback in and of itself doesn't make you GREAT by default. You have to deliver. Miki hasn't delivered...yet. Also despite her long competitive history, she has 2 WC gold, 1 WC bronze, 1 4CC gold, 1 4CC bronze, 1 GPF silver.

    I think they're GOOD athletes, but GREAT athletes? I'm not so sure based on their competitive results.


    Where did I compare Yuna's resume to ashley. Stop putting words in my mouth. No I said this sport has more than one great athlete. And if you and Philip think there is only one Great athlete, then ok, but I disagree. And this bad habit of dissmissing peoples's acompliament to point out Yuna Kim is the greatest is not necesary.

  13. #43
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    What does Max Aaron know about figure skating? He needs to read what Minze2001 thinks about his ignorant opinion. :-P

    Condesending much? your attempt at sarcasm?

  14. #44
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    I greatly hesitate to enter this thread, but...

    I personally have no opinion on whether tweets should be held to strict journalistic principles or no - I've quite honestly not given the subject enough thought - but I do think that if TSL's tweets are worthy of such scrutiny, then so are Phil Hersch's... (Some of the debate about whether TSL should be regarded seriously or no having been based on their tweets.) However, I think that his articles should rather be the basis for a debate about his journalistic abilities - I've seen him much criticised in the past for those very articles, but such criticism on this thread seems mostly absent. Again, personally, I can't give an opinion - I read an article or so of his a few years back, didn't like it, and haven't really read many since, so I do not consider myself able to judge on the matter. I do think this could be the subject for an interesting debate - could.

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