And what of Mirai Nagasu? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

And what of Mirai Nagasu?

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
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I wouldn't get too excited about scores from B Internationals. They tend to be inflated in comparison with scores from GPs and Senior ISU Championship events.

Mirai had only 3 fully rotated triples in her Finlandia FS. I doubt she would get 110 in a GP for that FS.
 

Kitt

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Country
United-States
The URs continue to be a beast for her. I agree with the other posters, I think she gets judged too harshly in that area compared to other ladies. It's like the technical caller is trying to hit some sort of quota in URs and downgrades. I think she has good programs this year. In the sp and lp I feel like she started to create some special moments. The spread eagle into double axel was pure delight, and everything from the final triple loop to the end of her freeskate was fast and exciting. She even had the audience into it, and you kind of got the sense that she knew that.

Her scores here were higher than last year and some of the best for a US lady so far. It's still technically the preseason, but that's worth something. Almost every US lady has a demon to overcome. The question is which ladies will rise above them. I'm hoping to see Mirai build at each event this year.

I agree with this; I thought she looked fantastic and confident this weekend. Hope she can build on that!
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
I agree with this; I thought she looked fantastic and confident this weekend. Hope she can build on that!

She did, but how discouraging to have all your jumps downgraded. She's getting no favors. I think she is being picked upon. I still don't see the THREE UR in her winning skate at 2010 Nats. Thank god she still made the Olympic team despite these totally random UR's. Big fan of Mirai, and just want her to skate well and be happy after each performance. She looked darn good this week. But face it, at USN she's going to get a million downcalls.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Although she does get a lot of UR calls, all of her triples (even when they get credit) look close to URed. Someone else mentioned she has a pronounced hook on her landings and this is absolutely true. I don't think she is getting "picked on". Rather, she has developed a reputation for URing and every jump is going to be scrutinized by the caller.

What I do think is unfair is whether a jump is URed affects the GOE. I feel like the judges should judge the jump as they see it, and the technical panel should judge the rotation and the edges. You often have a scenario when a jump might earn +1 but when it is determined to be URed it gets -2, which seems unfair to me.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
I wouldn't get too excited about scores from B Internationals. They tend to be inflated in comparison with scores from GPs and Senior ISU Championship events.

Mirai had only 3 fully rotated triples in her Finlandia FS. I doubt she would get 110 in a GP for that FS.

Why? She got almost 104 last year at CoC and had zero triples there.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Why? She got almost 104 last year at CoC and had zero triples there.

+1

I honestly believe that if Mirai could get her 'spark' back she'd be consistently posting 120+ point programs even with the UR issue. Her PCS would rise I think a full point each if she could skate with the energy/spirit that she used to, and her GOEs would also go up, particularly on her spins.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
The URs continue to be a beast for her. I agree with the other posters, I think she gets judged too harshly in that area compared to other ladies. It's like the technical caller is trying to hit some sort of quota in URs and downgrades. I think she has good programs this year. In the sp and lp I feel like she started to create some special moments. The spread eagle into double axel was pure delight, and everything from the final triple loop to the end of her freeskate was fast and exciting. She even had the audience into it, and you kind of got the sense that she knew that.

Her scores here were higher than last year and some of the best for a US lady so far. It's still technically the preseason, but that's worth something. Almost every US lady has a demon to overcome. The question is which ladies will rise above them. I'm hoping to see Mirai build at each event this year.

ITA with this. Without staring at the protocol, Mirai delivered two strong performances at Finlandia. I thought she looked much better there than she has in the past. She showed more life and a glimpse of a spark in both programs, especially at the end of her FS, which is much better since we first saw it earlier this season. Mirai is really fighting; she's going for all of the jumps, she's standing up on them and that's good. The URs are an issue and b/c she has the reputation of being a chronic URer all of her jumps will continue to be judged under a microscope. I don't think there's anything she can do about that at this point other than do her best to rotate as many triples as she can.

I hope she's not too discouraged by the scores she's getting. If anything that should inspire her to fight even harder. Her performances were good and if she can build on those, she'll be in good shape by nationals.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
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May 19, 2011
senior ladies FS scores 2013-2014 season:
Wagner 119 Japan Open
Hicks 117
Nagasu 110
Cesario 109
Gold 106
Cain 104
Gao 100
Zawadzki 95

And a cople other FS scores from Japan open.

Sotnikova 105
Murakami 102

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call perspective. :agree:
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
I wouldn't get too excited about scores from B Internationals. They tend to be inflated in comparison with scores from GPs and Senior ISU Championship events.

Mirai had only 3 fully rotated triples in her Finlandia FS. I doubt she would get 110 in a GP for that FS.

If Mirai's 110 FS is inflated because its a senior B, OK. Then Gao's 100 score and Agnes's 95 must also be inflated, as they are also from senior B's.

Not saying Mirai should score as well as Mao, but a quick check shows Mao got a 118 for a 3 triple FS at CoC last year. I remember Lepisto got a 114 in her FS, along with a world bronze, at 2010 worlds with 3 triples, so a 110 for Mirai with 3 ratified triples doesn't look out of line.
 

KwanIsALegend

Fly On
Medalist
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Mirai has such a spark when she wants to. She has a spunky, fun personality and it shows through her skating and I think that makes her such an enjoyable skater to watch. Her 2010 national LP is a good example of that spunk shining through.
Maybe she has too much on her plate or she is feeling tremendous pressure and she can't be free in her programs.
I think she is a very good skater and would love to see her bounce back and win and have a great season.
 

icellist

On the Ice
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Oct 16, 2011
Imagine how much her scores will be if she gets all her jumps ratified <and the PCS boost judges give for a clean program>
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
The judges are not beating her up, as some of you are, because she doesn't have that spark some think is so important. In the long program at Finlandia, her score was only 5.47 points below that of Suzuki!!!!! And Suzuki sparkles and then some. Get rid of those pesky Ur's and Mirai will do well and be on the way back.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
That is true tulosai. One wonders if a thicker Tara would have been a lesser jumper. She was tiny and her jumps are tiny. I guess after I rad Gelsey Kirkland's 1986 book for first time. What a book, BTW! I was shocked to see her dancers wer so thin they looked other worldly. After all she went through, breast implants, emetics, lip puffers, then cocaine to give her energy she did not have especially after Baryshnikov broke her heart and spirit, her dancers should be healthy looking. It is a shame a lot of Gelsey is not on the internet. She has allowed only her best. She was fabulous, but in her mind never good enough, and being the chosen or one of them, of the God Misha, it must have been hard. After reading it, I wondered if I could like ballet at all anymore. Gelsey was a real diva, but perfectionism is exactly what causes eating disorders.

It is amazing to look at gymnasts, dancers (ballerinas) and female skaters over the decades, and it is just so sad for women. Everyone wants that beautiful line. I'm just disappointed in Gelsey for not looking for slender but muscular, strong ballerinas. Now in skating, the Asian ladies have a huge advantage. Interesting that Zhang and Nagasu are Amer-Asian. Makes one wonder what our genetically modified food is doing. I'd love to know what rules regarding food additives exist in Japan and South Korea. But YuNa was starved after Vancouver-she wanted to eat delicious food. And Shizuka is much thinner -she had muscles as a competitor and she is too thin. Remember TV puts on 10 pounds. It is a shock the times I saw some of these top skaters in person.

I am grateful for honesty of skaters like Lucindah Ruh and Jenny Kirk.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Interesting that Zhang and Nagasu are Amer-Asian. Makes one wonder what our genetically modified food is doing.

The American diet is definitely responsible for a lot of problems. It's not really their faults either, because unless you are educated about it, then how do you ever know? You have to eat and when you're young, you can only eat what is put in front of you.
 

icellist

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
I actually went to school with Mirai for some time. Her parents always made lunch for her to bring. It was very healthy and practically oil-free traditional Japanese cooking (not bento). I do know however that she goes to starbucks and drinks boba once in awhile.
 

samson

Medalist
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Interesting to note. I just saw that Mirai actually had a higher TES in the freeskate than Akiko. Huh. That's definitely some food for thought.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Now in skating, the Asian ladies have a huge advantage. Interesting that Zhang and Nagasu are Amer-Asian. Makes one wonder what our genetically modified food is doing. I'd love to know what rules regarding food additives exist in Japan and South Korea. But YuNa was starved after Vancouver-she wanted to eat delicious food. And Shizuka is much thinner -she had muscles as a competitor and she is too thin. Remember TV puts on 10 pounds. It is a shock the times I saw some of these top skaters in person.

I am grateful for honesty of skaters like Lucindah Ruh and Jenny Kirk.

it's not the genetically modified food, but what you eat. American food usually means high calories. Even if you're eating a very low calorie item, you eat so much of it that it sort of negates it. Asian portion size is astonishingly small for most Americans. What Americans consider S-size is M in Asia.

Japanese food or Korean food BTW do not often mean low-fat. There are some really really greasy food, and Japanese & Korean aren't afraid to use oil in their cooking or eat lots of carb. Beef in Japan tends to be much higher in fat content than in America because people in Japan prefer soft/fatty meat. Ditto for chicken. (Thigh meat costs more than breast meat.)

Yuna was not starved AFTER Vancouver. She's very strict about what she eats because she wants to maintain optimal weight for competition. (Her one weakness is bread. She often said she loves to eat bread all the time, but can't.)

Shiz is very thin now, but a lot of Japanese women are really thin and often on the short side. Now that she's not competitively skating & is doing TV works, I'm sure she might feel the need to stay slim for the camera.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Jan 1, 2013
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She did, but how discouraging to have all your jumps downgraded. She's getting no favors. I think she is being picked upon. I still don't see the THREE UR in her winning skate at 2010 Nats.

And you are a Senior level ISU-qualified technical specialist, are you?

I bear no feelings towards Nagasu either way. I neither love her nor hate her. I don't even watch a lot of ladies.

But I am absolutely fed up with reading the rubbish in these Nagasu threads about how the controllers are stiffing her, or giving her < that don't exist, or having quotas.

To become an ISU technical specialist is an extremely rigorous and time-consuming process. And just becoming it isn't enough. These specialists have to be re-accredited over a set period of time. They have to continue to pass tests and exams to prove their competency as tech specialists, and the standard is extremely high. This is a process of decades, not months. You can't just walk in off the street and say, "hey, I wanna be an ISU technical specialist". It doesn't work like that.

And then, at the actual competition itself, these specialists aren't just making calls based on feelings. They have the power (at this level particularly) to review each element, with video replay. And this video replay can do everything they need it to. It can stop, slo-mo, super slo-mo and hey, if there are any doubts, they can do frame-by-frame analysis to determine the exact moment the toepick hit the ice.

If the technical panel called Nagasu for three URs then guess what? She did three URs. The ubers may not like it, but it's the stone cold truth. And yeah, if she has a reputation for it, they are going to be more likely to review things. But they wouldn't call a UR if she didn't actually do it.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
And you are a Senior level ISU-qualified technical specialist, are you?

You are the queen of rhetorical questions, aren't you... OK, so she maybe gets slightly under the full rotation, but her body and shoulders are aligned backwards. The problems I had with UR were the Sarah Hugheses who obviously were at least 1/2 under and had to swing their way into a landing. APMcD also tended to fish-hook her landings. There are true URs and then there are the "up to the caller" UR's. I'm not ignorant, I have followed skating for nearly 30 years, have been to more competitions than I can remember. I'm the nerd who sits for hours watching practices, and I am always astounded why a caller declares an "E" on a lutz for Skater A at Nats when Sasha Cohen who never knew a BOE doesn't get the same call and scores higher. It is not an across the board call, and it can serve politically. There should be by this point a computer program that tracks each skater's jumps and can determine the edge take-off and rotation, thus leaving the 'caller' useless. The system is very flawed, but what else is new. I still maintain that Nagasu gets overly dinged versus her competitors. But so is life. She's used to it.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
OK, so she maybe gets slightly under the full rotation, but her body and shoulders are aligned backwards.

You claim to not be ignorant, but this is a pretty ignorant comment.

The body and shoulder alignment is irrelevant. She doesn't land backwards. Her blade does not hit the ice on a backwards landing. That is the important part of the package. What it "looks" like from her shoulders and body is not the same as what it actually is when her toe hits the ice.
 
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