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Thread: And what of Mirai Nagasu?

  1. #91
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    Imagine how much her scores will be if she gets all her jumps ratified <and the PCS boost judges give for a clean program>

  2. #92
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    The judges are not beating her up, as some of you are, because she doesn't have that spark some think is so important. In the long program at Finlandia, her score was only 5.47 points below that of Suzuki!!!!! And Suzuki sparkles and then some. Get rid of those pesky Ur's and Mirai will do well and be on the way back.

  3. #93
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    That is true tulosai. One wonders if a thicker Tara would have been a lesser jumper. She was tiny and her jumps are tiny. I guess after I rad Gelsey Kirkland's 1986 book for first time. What a book, BTW! I was shocked to see her dancers wer so thin they looked other worldly. After all she went through, breast implants, emetics, lip puffers, then cocaine to give her energy she did not have especially after Baryshnikov broke her heart and spirit, her dancers should be healthy looking. It is a shame a lot of Gelsey is not on the internet. She has allowed only her best. She was fabulous, but in her mind never good enough, and being the chosen or one of them, of the God Misha, it must have been hard. After reading it, I wondered if I could like ballet at all anymore. Gelsey was a real diva, but perfectionism is exactly what causes eating disorders.

    It is amazing to look at gymnasts, dancers (ballerinas) and female skaters over the decades, and it is just so sad for women. Everyone wants that beautiful line. I'm just disappointed in Gelsey for not looking for slender but muscular, strong ballerinas. Now in skating, the Asian ladies have a huge advantage. Interesting that Zhang and Nagasu are Amer-Asian. Makes one wonder what our genetically modified food is doing. I'd love to know what rules regarding food additives exist in Japan and South Korea. But YuNa was starved after Vancouver-she wanted to eat delicious food. And Shizuka is much thinner -she had muscles as a competitor and she is too thin. Remember TV puts on 10 pounds. It is a shock the times I saw some of these top skaters in person.

    I am grateful for honesty of skaters like Lucindah Ruh and Jenny Kirk.

  4. #94
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Interesting that Zhang and Nagasu are Amer-Asian. Makes one wonder what our genetically modified food is doing.
    The American diet is definitely responsible for a lot of problems. It's not really their faults either, because unless you are educated about it, then how do you ever know? You have to eat and when you're young, you can only eat what is put in front of you.

  5. #95
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    I actually went to school with Mirai for some time. Her parents always made lunch for her to bring. It was very healthy and practically oil-free traditional Japanese cooking (not bento). I do know however that she goes to starbucks and drinks boba once in awhile.

  6. #96
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    Interesting to note. I just saw that Mirai actually had a higher TES in the freeskate than Akiko. Huh. That's definitely some food for thought.

  7. #97
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Now in skating, the Asian ladies have a huge advantage. Interesting that Zhang and Nagasu are Amer-Asian. Makes one wonder what our genetically modified food is doing. I'd love to know what rules regarding food additives exist in Japan and South Korea. But YuNa was starved after Vancouver-she wanted to eat delicious food. And Shizuka is much thinner -she had muscles as a competitor and she is too thin. Remember TV puts on 10 pounds. It is a shock the times I saw some of these top skaters in person.

    I am grateful for honesty of skaters like Lucindah Ruh and Jenny Kirk.
    it's not the genetically modified food, but what you eat. American food usually means high calories. Even if you're eating a very low calorie item, you eat so much of it that it sort of negates it. Asian portion size is astonishingly small for most Americans. What Americans consider S-size is M in Asia.

    Japanese food or Korean food BTW do not often mean low-fat. There are some really really greasy food, and Japanese & Korean aren't afraid to use oil in their cooking or eat lots of carb. Beef in Japan tends to be much higher in fat content than in America because people in Japan prefer soft/fatty meat. Ditto for chicken. (Thigh meat costs more than breast meat.)

    Yuna was not starved AFTER Vancouver. She's very strict about what she eats because she wants to maintain optimal weight for competition. (Her one weakness is bread. She often said she loves to eat bread all the time, but can't.)

    Shiz is very thin now, but a lot of Japanese women are really thin and often on the short side. Now that she's not competitively skating & is doing TV works, I'm sure she might feel the need to stay slim for the camera.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    She did, but how discouraging to have all your jumps downgraded. She's getting no favors. I think she is being picked upon. I still don't see the THREE UR in her winning skate at 2010 Nats.
    And you are a Senior level ISU-qualified technical specialist, are you?

    I bear no feelings towards Nagasu either way. I neither love her nor hate her. I don't even watch a lot of ladies.

    But I am absolutely fed up with reading the rubbish in these Nagasu threads about how the controllers are stiffing her, or giving her < that don't exist, or having quotas.

    To become an ISU technical specialist is an extremely rigorous and time-consuming process. And just becoming it isn't enough. These specialists have to be re-accredited over a set period of time. They have to continue to pass tests and exams to prove their competency as tech specialists, and the standard is extremely high. This is a process of decades, not months. You can't just walk in off the street and say, "hey, I wanna be an ISU technical specialist". It doesn't work like that.

    And then, at the actual competition itself, these specialists aren't just making calls based on feelings. They have the power (at this level particularly) to review each element, with video replay. And this video replay can do everything they need it to. It can stop, slo-mo, super slo-mo and hey, if there are any doubts, they can do frame-by-frame analysis to determine the exact moment the toepick hit the ice.

    If the technical panel called Nagasu for three URs then guess what? She did three URs. The ubers may not like it, but it's the stone cold truth. And yeah, if she has a reputation for it, they are going to be more likely to review things. But they wouldn't call a UR if she didn't actually do it.

  9. #99
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    And you are a Senior level ISU-qualified technical specialist, are you?
    You are the queen of rhetorical questions, aren't you... OK, so she maybe gets slightly under the full rotation, but her body and shoulders are aligned backwards. The problems I had with UR were the Sarah Hugheses who obviously were at least 1/2 under and had to swing their way into a landing. APMcD also tended to fish-hook her landings. There are true URs and then there are the "up to the caller" UR's. I'm not ignorant, I have followed skating for nearly 30 years, have been to more competitions than I can remember. I'm the nerd who sits for hours watching practices, and I am always astounded why a caller declares an "E" on a lutz for Skater A at Nats when Sasha Cohen who never knew a BOE doesn't get the same call and scores higher. It is not an across the board call, and it can serve politically. There should be by this point a computer program that tracks each skater's jumps and can determine the edge take-off and rotation, thus leaving the 'caller' useless. The system is very flawed, but what else is new. I still maintain that Nagasu gets overly dinged versus her competitors. But so is life. She's used to it.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    OK, so she maybe gets slightly under the full rotation, but her body and shoulders are aligned backwards.
    You claim to not be ignorant, but this is a pretty ignorant comment.

    The body and shoulder alignment is irrelevant. She doesn't land backwards. Her blade does not hit the ice on a backwards landing. That is the important part of the package. What it "looks" like from her shoulders and body is not the same as what it actually is when her toe hits the ice.

  11. #101
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    But Ann Patrice McDonough & Sarah Hughes didn't skate under COP. And Sarah also had a wicked flutz most of the time that wasn't penalized. Their skating, and the skating of those with the same problems, who were also over-rewarded, are exactly why COP penalizes both wrong edges and UR's. Mirai had the misfortunate to learn her jumps in an era when flutzing, lipping & UR's weren't penalized. Now she suffers from UR calls exactly because COP has been designed to encourage good jumping & skating technique, and she doesn't yet have them It was not designed specifically so one Mirai Nagasu should get either bad or good scores.

  12. #102
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    You are the queen of rhetorical questions, aren't you... OK, so she maybe gets slightly under the full rotation, but her body and shoulders are aligned backwards. The problems I had with UR were the Sarah Hugheses who obviously were at least 1/2 under and had to swing their way into a landing. APMcD also tended to fish-hook her landings. There are true URs and then there are the "up to the caller" UR's. I'm not ignorant, I have followed skating for nearly 30 years, have been to more competitions than I can remember. I'm the nerd who sits for hours watching practices, and I am always astounded why a caller declares an "E" on a lutz for Skater A at Nats when Sasha Cohen who never knew a BOE doesn't get the same call and scores higher. It is not an across the board call, and it can serve politically. There should be by this point a computer program that tracks each skater's jumps and can determine the edge take-off and rotation, thus leaving the 'caller' useless. The system is very flawed, but what else is new. I still maintain that Nagasu gets overly dinged versus her competitors. But so is life. She's used to it.
    That is completely irrelevant. What matters is where her blades are and what they're doing. It's like saying, "How can a skater get -1 for a fall when her torso was completely upright?" Well, it's b/c her butt hit the ice.

    Sarah Hughes did NOT skate under COP, so it's ridiculous to compare how judges judged her skating to how they're judging Mirai. Mirai would've been fine under the old 6.0 system because nobody would've cared about her URs.

    BTW - it's not just some international politicking that's preventing Mirai from avoiding UR calls. Americans are also giving her UR calls. She got a few before Vancouver, didn't she? If she'd addressed the technical problem ASAP maybe she could've saved her reputation, but now it's too late. Hence she gets extra scrutiny.

  13. #103
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    And you are a Senior level ISU-qualified technical specialist, are you?

    I bear no feelings towards Nagasu either way. I neither love her nor hate her. I don't even watch a lot of ladies.

    But I am absolutely fed up with reading the rubbish in these Nagasu threads about how the controllers are stiffing her, or giving her < that don't exist, or having quotas.

    To become an ISU technical specialist is an extremely rigorous and time-consuming process. And just becoming it isn't enough. These specialists have to be re-accredited over a set period of time. They have to continue to pass tests and exams to prove their competency as tech specialists, and the standard is extremely high. This is a process of decades, not months. You can't just walk in off the street and say, "hey, I wanna be an ISU technical specialist". It doesn't work like that.

    And then, at the actual competition itself, these specialists aren't just making calls based on feelings. They have the power (at this level particularly) to review each element, with video replay. And this video replay can do everything they need it to. It can stop, slo-mo, super slo-mo and hey, if there are any doubts, they can do frame-by-frame analysis to determine the exact moment the toepick hit the ice.

    If the technical panel called Nagasu for three URs then guess what? She did three URs. The ubers may not like it, but it's the stone cold truth. And yeah, if she has a reputation for it, they are going to be more likely to review things. But they wouldn't call a UR if she didn't actually do it.
    I agree with the general point but I do think that sometimes when another skater (in fact most skaters) would get the benefit of the doubt re 1/4 turn, Mirai does not get it. I agree that the tech callers are not 'inventing' URs for Mirai- she has a problem and they are within their rights to make the calls they are making. However, at times it is legitimately VERY close (I am not a tech caller but I can watch on super slow motion replay as well as anyone and I can count to 3 rotations) and they NEVER in those situations give her the benefit of the doubt, whereas they would often give it to others. I do not think it is entirely fair, regardless of her 'reputation'.

  14. #104
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    Video replay is at the discretion of the Tech Specialist. I wonder if Mirai's reputation for under rotating might result in them video reviewing her jumps more often than that of other skater's. Perhaps, part of the protocols should be a vr by a jump if it was video reviewed.

  15. #105
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Video replay is at the discretion of the Tech Specialist. I wonder if Mirai's reputation for under rotating might result in them video reviewing her jumps more often than that of other skater's. Perhaps, part of the protocols should be a vr by a jump if it was video reviewed.
    Now THAT is very plausible. I did not know that and now think it is extremely likely that this is what is going on and why she seems to get the benefit of the doubt less than others- she may be reviewed more than others in the first place.

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