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Thread: And what of Mirai Nagasu?

  1. #106
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Likely any of her jumps with a "hook" on the end gets a review call from someone on the tech panel. Since many of her jumps seem to employ this method, they are probably reviewing 5 or 6 of her jump passes per program

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    However, at times it is legitimately VERY close (I am not a tech caller but I can watch on super slow motion replay as well as anyone and I can count to 3 rotations) and they NEVER in those situations give her the benefit of the doubt, whereas they would often give it to others. I do not think it is entirely fair, regardless of her 'reputation'.
    I think URing is a common problem and you see a lot of skaters get that call. It may not seem like it because Mirai is such a prominent skater and URing isn't as much of a problem for the top skaters, but if you look at protocols lower in the standings and junior events you'll see that a lot of skaters get dinged. I think what icey/mskater have said is correct about most of her passes getting reviewed because of her reputation and her tendency to "hook" the landings of her jumps.

  3. #108
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    Part of the problem, I think is that her landings aren't that clear enough to even provide a benefit of the doubt. Because she does that hook landing, it's really hard to see where the blade lands.

    With other skaters who are borderline, it's clear they are borderline, so judges tend to give a benefit of the doubt.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by samson View Post
    Interesting to note. I just saw that Mirai actually had a higher TES in the freeskate than Akiko. Huh. That's definitely some food for thought.
    Akiko's spins aren't that great, and Mirai gets L4 +2 and +3 GOE for hers. There are 3 spins in the FS, so that helps Mirai's TES quite a bit.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by samson View Post
    Interesting to note. I just saw that Mirai actually had a higher TES in the freeskate than Akiko. Huh. That's definitely some food for thought.
    She also got lower PCS than Liza in both programs, and she even beat Liza in the SP.

  6. #111
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    Why is there 2 threads about Mirai? Just what happened to her .. TWICE?!

    Despite my head banging tendencies when I watch her, I am still hopeful though. Go girl! You are missing that attitude, convey convey convey... express express express and most importantly, rotate rotate rotate. It is that simple really! You can do it, try harder!!

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    She also got lower PCS than Liza in both programs, and she even beat Liza in the SP.
    Most deservedly, IMO. Despite her jump mistakes, Liza attacked her SP and skated with great expression in both programs. There were lots of dramatic musical moments in Mirai's FS that cried out for body movement and facial expression that she just ignored. I'd give her no more than 6.00 for IN.

  8. #113
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    I still love her skating, better than some reknowned jumpers. She was the bomb for me in Vancouver. Yuna was on a strict diet and after Vancouver she said one thing she wanted was "delicious food." Yuna was very thin-still is.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    And you are a Senior level ISU-qualified technical specialist, are you?


    And then, at the actual competition itself, these specialists aren't just making calls based on feelings. They have the power (at this level particularly) to review each element, with video replay. And this video replay can do everything they need it to. It can stop, slo-mo, super slo-mo and hey, if there are any doubts, they can do frame-by-frame analysis to determine the exact moment the toepick hit the ice.

    If the technical panel called Nagasu for three URs then guess what? She did three URs. The ubers may not like it, but it's the stone cold truth. And yeah, if she has a reputation for it, they are going to be more likely to review things. But they wouldn't call a UR if she didn't actually do it.
    I have seen a lot of these posts saying tech controllers never make mistakes. I recall the Omaha Nationals, (not an ISU judged event, but with tech specialists having plenty of training and video capability), where Nagasu was called for a "fall" and received the deduction, yet the national broadcast clearly showed there were hands down, but there was no fall. Tech controllers can and do make errors, even with video assistance available.

  10. #115
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    It must be harder with a changing body and it sounds like there were some issues driving long distances/times last year as well as finances etc. in a sport so highly competitive. I hope she finds the joy again. No matter what she is an olympian and almost medallist. No one can take that away.

  11. #116
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    You claim to not be ignorant, but this is a pretty ignorant comment.

    The body and shoulder alignment is irrelevant. She doesn't land backwards. Her blade does not hit the ice on a backwards landing. That is the important part of the package. What it "looks" like from her shoulders and body is not the same as what it actually is when her toe hits the ice.
    She does land backwards. Last I checked you get 90 degrees leeway. Mirai doesn't seem to be given that benefit. And no, I do not think that was a pretty ignorant comment. Thank you though for your expertise on this subject.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    She does land backwards. Last I checked you get 90 degrees leeway. Mirai doesn't seem to be given that benefit.
    The 90 degrees is measured by where the blade touches the ice, not the upper body position. However, she also is not fully rotated in the upper body when her blade lands either. She just turns around quickly.

  13. #118
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The 90 degrees is measured by where the blade touches the ice, not the upper body position. However, she also is not fully rotated in the upper body when her blade lands either. She just turns around quickly.
    +1. Upper body position is irrelivant, karne and drivingmissdaisy are correct. It doesn't matter if she 'lands backwards' it matters where her blade is.

  14. #119
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    But don't you think this whole UR issue was started because Sarah Hughes hardly ever managed a clean jump? Her "lutz" was pulled into the inner rotation and after maybe two revs on ice she'd UR the landing and TADA it. That needed to be corrected. But
    now it is preposterous. When someone with decent technique falls because they are UR, you have others who live on that UR and TADA it like Sarah Hughes. But I'm sorry, if your shoulders and body and free leg are backwards without a Sarah squirm or swirl to get around you ARE completing the jump. I totally understand UR. I still maintain that Mirai is getting hosed.


    And why not just rely on an above spy=cam? Having attending like a hundred events in my life, I have watched practices and run throughs more than most. I loved to sit in the lutz corner. It was always pissing me off when the 'stars' got credit for a LUTZ when the tracings show a perfect C tracing. That included Cohen, Kwan, Lipinski, and well almost everyone. And then Yebin Mok does her lutz, and it's glorious with a perfect outside edge tracing.

    I say let's forget a technical caller who is biased anyway and just rely on an above spy-cam that can quantify the rotation and have a picture perfect recording of the take-off edge and rotation. It always amazes me how coaches make their students do their unlucky and UR jumps far away so the judges cannot discern if it is good or bad. That was Robin's strategy with Sarah, just try to hide how hideous this is as if a judge only feet away can't tell her pre-rotated flip jump (ooops that was her "lutz" jump)

  15. #120
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    But don't you think this whole UR issue was started because Sarah Hughes hardly ever managed a clean jump? Her "lutz" was pulled into the inner rotation and after maybe two revs on ice she'd UR the landing and TADA it. That needed to be corrected. But
    now it is preposterous. When someone with decent technique falls because they are UR, you have others who live on that UR and TADA it like Sarah Hughes. But I'm sorry, if your shoulders and body and free leg are backwards without a Sarah squirm or swirl to get around you ARE completing the jump. I totally understand UR. I still maintain that Mirai is getting hosed.
    Why are you insisting on dragging Sarah Hughes into this debate? Sarah did NOT skate under COP. It doesn't matter how SHE did it under the old system. Sarah also didn't compete against Mirai either. This is completely irrelevant.

    If you want to compare Mirai to somebody else, then at least use Mao, Rachael Flatt, Alyssa, CaroK, CaroZ, Yuna or somebody who actually skated under COP and have competed against Mirai (either at the Oly or some other comps). Compare how tech callers judge THEIR jumps compared to Mirai's. Then you can actually convince me or other people that Mirai is getting hosed by some tech callers out to get her.

    Otherwise, Mirai is just a skater with some serious UR issues, and it's not the judges' fault that she hasn't been able to fix those issues.

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