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Thread: Will Ando make the Olympic Team?

  1. #76
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Two things about Murakami's second 3Lo:

    a) it was iffy, and could have actually been UR'ed when the tech specialist slow-mo'ed it on replay.
    It wasn't iffy at all. It was a very good Triple Loop, no question. You can see on the replay that even the very tippy top of her toepick is in the air at the 1/4 turn mark - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSNHk2GcISU . Also, the "1/4 turn mark" is relative to where a skater leaves the ice. She doesn't even take off perpendicular to the side board, she takes off a little bit before that point, which means the "1/4 turn mark" should actually be seen as slightly further back. Jumps also have a natural ride-out of 1/2 rotation on the landing. Look at where her skate is exiting the jump. Even the sound of the landing is correct to my ear!

    Her first 3Lo was iffy but I don't believe that one was even more than 1/4 turn either, when you look at where she actually leaves the ice. Callers are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt. Of course, if they don't properly measure where a jump actually begins, then they are going to be off. They basically just call jumps as < when they see a skid on the landing, which is not correct. Jumps can be within the 1/4 and still have some skid on the landing (of course they can be underrotated and still appear smooth on the landing as well).

    If Murakami's jumps had been judged as 3Lo+2T with 0 GOE and 3Lo with +1 GOE, and Kostner's 3T in the SP had been called <, the standings actually wouldn't have changed solely based on the tech mark. You are correct about that. Kostner would have still won the Silver over Mao by a little over .1 of a point and Murakami still would have been behind Mao. However, these bad tech calls are just one part of the problem. I feel Kostner and Asada were both overly gifted in the PCS as well. If you lower those scores by just a few points in total, between both the SP and LP, then Murakami is the Silver medalist.

  2. #77
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    Miki won SP at All Kanto. The first 3L-2R was clear, but 3L was ur. Some spins were better than Nebelhorn, some were not, according to the article.
    http://www.asahi.com/sports/update/1...310130203.html
    Most likely she is going to East Japan, and then Nationals.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Phantom underrotations, sure.
    Say what you will, you and I and nobody else here has access to the close-up slow motion replays that the tech specialist sees. If several different tech specialists keep calling her out on URs, they can't all be ganging up on her. Hopefully she can get that extra spring on her jump that makes the full rotation less ambiguous because there's a reason she is consistently not getting the benefit of the doubt.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamon View Post
    Miki won SP at All Kanto. The first 3L-2R was clear, but 3L was ur. Some spins were better than Nebelhorn, some were not, according to the article.
    http://www.asahi.com/sports/update/1...310130203.html
    Most likely she is going to East Japan, and then Nationals.
    Miki landed two triples (both salchows) and scored 91.05 points in her LP (39.45 TES.) I am impressed with her progress so soon after giving birth, but that type of performance won't get her on Japan's Olympic team. If she can't land her triples, then she has nothing to offer. She is slow, her spins are really subpar, and her programs are totally devoid of any artistic value.

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    When exactly will the team be chosen? Japan Nationals is usually right around the holidays/Christmas. But do they have some committee process for making a decision and is the decision during or immediately after Nationals? Timeline would seem to really matter as far as Miki is concerned.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It wasn't iffy at all. It was a very good Triple Loop, no question. You can see on the replay that even the very tippy top of her toepick is in the air at the 1/4 turn mark - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSNHk2GcISU . Also, the "1/4 turn mark" is relative to where a skater leaves the ice. She doesn't even take off perpendicular to the side board, she takes off a little bit before that point, which means the "1/4 turn mark" should actually be seen as slightly further back. Jumps also have a natural ride-out of 1/2 rotation on the landing. Look at where her skate is exiting the jump. Even the sound of the landing is correct to my ear!

    Her first 3Lo was iffy but I don't believe that one was even more than 1/4 turn either, when you look at where she actually leaves the ice. Callers are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt. Of course, if they don't properly measure where a jump actually begins, then they are going to be off. They basically just call jumps as < when they see a skid on the landing, which is not correct. Jumps can be within the 1/4 and still have some skid on the landing (of course they can be underrotated and still appear smooth on the landing as well).

    If Murakami's jumps had been judged as 3Lo+2T with 0 GOE and 3Lo with +1 GOE, and Kostner's 3T in the SP had been called <, the standings actually wouldn't have changed solely based on the tech mark. You are correct about that. Kostner would have still won the Silver over Mao by a little over .1 of a point and Murakami still would have been behind Mao. However, these bad tech calls are just one part of the problem. I feel Kostner and Asada were both overly gifted in the PCS as well. If you lower those scores by just a few points in total, between both the SP and LP, then Murakami is the Silver medalist.
    Why shouldn't you just accept the fact that she is prone to underrotaions? I watch her underrotated jumps on slow-motions and the result is that I always agree with the technical speciallist. The majority of her loops is cheated indeed as is often the case with her flips. When I look very closesly at slow-motions that are available e.g. on Eurosport or CBC I actually find that she is given the benefit of the doubt quite often.

  7. #82
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    http://www.asahi.com/sports/update/1...310140125.html
    She won that competition, but it is very hard for her to regain her power and energy. She confessed she was tired from the last competition in Germany. She is going to try to get enough time to practice.
    I started to worry about her health a little. Isn't it a good idea to take it easy, to take care of her health after giving birth?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartek View Post
    Why shouldn't you just accept the fact that she is prone to underrotaions? I watch her underrotated jumps on slow-motions and the result is that I always agree with the technical speciallist. The majority of her loops is cheated indeed as is often the case with her flips. When I look very closesly at slow-motions that are available e.g. on Eurosport or CBC I actually find that she is given the benefit of the doubt quite often.
    I wouldn't say her flips are often UR'ed. Especially nowadays, she tends to get the necessary height on her flip to make the rotation. Her 3L though is always iffy and she's prone to hooking her landings. I'm surprised she doesn't go for a second 3S instead of a second 3L.

  9. #84
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    Miki failed to be qualified as a strengthening athlete by her federation for now. The reason is she is not at the level of Olympics. But if she will skate well in the next competition, East Japan in the beginning of November, she might be qualified.
    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/olympic/201...htm?from=main6

    In the meantime she got an invitation from Icechallenge, which will be held in Graz, Austria in the end of November.
    http://www.asahi.com/sports/update/1...310160506.html

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamon View Post
    http://www.asahi.com/sports/update/1...310140125.html
    She won that competition, but it is very hard for her to regain her power and energy. She confessed she was tired from the last competition in Germany. She is going to try to get enough time to practice.
    I started to worry about her health a little. Isn't it a good idea to take it easy, to take care of her health after giving birth?
    Why do you think her health is at risk? I think it is normal for her to be tired and lack stamina, given that she has been off the ice and hasn't competed in so long. But I don't see why it would risk her health.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I wouldn't say her flips are often UR'ed. Especially nowadays, she tends to get the necessary height on her flip to make the rotation. Her 3L though is always iffy and she's prone to hooking her landings. I'm surprised she doesn't go for a second 3S instead of a second 3L.
    Kanako's 3F is usually borderline rotated (around the 1/4 turn mark) at best. Her jumps are reviewed so often because her blade rarely lands totally backwards. I think she often gets the benefit of the doubt from the technical caller (For example, I thought the rotation of her 3T-3T and 3F in her SP at Worlds was very questionable) and gets credit for more jumps than she deserves.

  11. #86
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcd View Post
    When exactly will the team be chosen? Japan Nationals is usually right around the holidays/Christmas. But do they have some committee process for making a decision and is the decision during or immediately after Nationals? Timeline would seem to really matter as far as Miki is concerned.
    Japans top 4 ladies are so good they deserve 4 spots

  12. #87
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    Miki has the drive and international judges still welcome her
    the problem is her federation doesn't want her and this might drop her motivation

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    Quote Originally Posted by lcd View Post
    When exactly will the team be chosen? Japan Nationals is usually right around the holidays/Christmas. But do they have some committee process for making a decision and is the decision during or immediately after Nationals? Timeline would seem to really matter as far as Miki is concerned.
    Yes. or, that's my understanding at least.
    I agree, Icd, it's unfortunate for Miki timeline-wise but Ladies field is also that deep in Japan. Feel sorry for skaters such as Miki Haruka in this regard, and for Yukari in the 2005-06 AND 2009-10 seasons, too.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Miki has the drive and international judges still welcome her
    the problem is her federation doesn't want her and this might drop her motivation
    I don't necessarily think this is the case. As Patongfan noted, her marks at Nelbehorn weren't that great. When she won her most recent world championship she was on fire that entire season, winning all but one competition she entered. Assuming she even makes the team, she won't have nearly the same momentum going into Sochi since she will have far fewer performances in front of international judges this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I don't necessarily think this is the case. As Patongfan noted, her marks at Nelbehorn weren't that great. When she won her most recent world championship she was on fire that entire season, winning all but one competition she entered. Assuming she even makes the team, she won't have nearly the same momentum going into Sochi since she will have far fewer performances in front of international judges this season.
    Miki skated even more slowly then she ever has and her spins were not good either and she's not that artistic. She's going to need some help to make the team.

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