Is Volosozhar and Trankov's FS Olympic gold worthy? | Golden Skate

Is Volosozhar and Trankov's FS Olympic gold worthy?

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Volosozhar & Trankov's new LP at NHT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkTjI6G2yEE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUpmadplEROgHA_9m0Cse1Gg

After last season's Ikuko Kawai sublime program, they chose Jesus Christ Superstar. Great pair, but what were they thinking about when they choose Jesus Christ Superstar?!?! A clean performance and the most muted applause from the audience. I hope they understand that this program won't work for anyone, skaters who used JC Superstar never had the results they looked for.

Well judges gave them a WR for that performance....so even if it isn't working, per se. IT's working as far as the scores goes.

I must say that while I did love their SP - I thought it was delighful - the FP just left me feeling:confused::confused: - and not to mention - :confused:

But this is the Olympics. Do they simply want to be remembered as the competent technical pair like M&M? Think most people would agree 1994 as the barometer of the height of pairs skating with B&S and S&Z as bright lights in subsequent years.

In spite of their technical issues the last great pair for me was B/S. They were just so beautiful. V/T just do not compare on any level. They either don't have the talent and or the work ethic:no: How could they feel comfortable with just recycling the choreography they've had for the last two or three years. Lazy!! IMHO. No matter how the judges will score your work, what about your own sense of pride? For that reason alone, I hope S/S win in Sochi, if only by some miracle:popcorn:

Moved from the programs thread. Let's continue.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Sure. Technically it was pretty solid and it would be worthy of an Olympic gold....

But was it a great program, oh dear god no. The funniest is the Eurosport guys' reaction to it... "We wondered what the hell was going on in the first minute or so of this [i.e. absolutely hated it], but they were executing the elements with a lot of quality, so I guess we're supposed to like it?!?" Too bad the clip I saw was cut off before I could hear their reactions to the scores.

V/T are capable of something so much more interesting than this. They have lovely elements, excellent speed, but the music is atrocious and the interpretation isn't there... I'm sorry but praying in the middle of the ice and then forming a cross at the end? I haven't seen such cheesiness since Kavaguti ripped open her dress to reveal a heart. :laugh:

I really hope they change their program, but the outrageously high score will probably make them think they have a good thing going.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Also, about the whole crucified Tatiana thing at the end, the IOC "prohibits demonstration or political, religious, or racial propaganda in any Olympic sites, venues, or areas". What's the IOC going to do?! :biggrin:
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Also, about the whole crucified Tatiana thing at the end, the IOC "prohibits demonstration or political, religious, or racial propaganda in any Olympic sites, venues, or areas". What's the IOC going to do?! :biggrin:


Yeah.... why did Tatiana crucify herself? :laugh: If anything, they were never victims since she paired with Trankov. Meteoric rise. Other pairs labored for years before the judges showed them any respect.

The most "memorable" JC Superstar program for me was Lobacheva and Averbukh's many years ago. That was another :confused:

JC Superstar is sort of a counter-cultural piece very specific to the 60/70s flower child thing. It's not really timeless and hardcore fans expect timeless artistic breakthroughs from the Olympics.

I also think Tatiana is a much stronger partner than Maxim is. She is exceptional while he is merely competent. Their twists and throws are spectacular. You have a very solid technical pair, but they are nowhere near the magic of B&S, S&Z, G&G, and M&D.
 

Celine

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
This feels like such a worthwhile question, that any single person could come up with very different and conflicting responses to. The whole issue of "worthiness" would be the pivot point.

We could go on debating endlessly. But, it seems practically moot. In pairs, element execution and racking up the points should win the day. The programs simply have to be that "artistic" or "creative" or "imaginative." Couple that with the inevitable level of $upport that they are already getting acknowledged with, it seems like it doesn't really matter.

And that is a shame. But likely true.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I think Trankov dictates to Mozer how he's going to skate, and he fails to see how poorly his skating skills and presentation match up with Tatiana's. He doesn't even make an effort to match her. He tries in exhibitions in competitions he only worries about nailing the elements and it shows. Sadly for Tatiana I hope that the success of other teams cause him to reevaluate this approach. But what is most sad is that this should be glaringly obvious to the judges but they choose to reward them for sloppy work just the same:no: It says a lot about figure skating and why many question with reason the integrity of the sport:scratch:
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
I think Trankov dictates to Mozer how he's going to skate, and he fails to see how poorly his skating skills and presentation match up with Tatiana's. He doesn't even make an effort to match her. He tries in exhibitions in competitions he only worries about nailing the elements and it shows. Sadly for Tatiana I hope that the success of other teams cause him to reevaluate this approach. But what is most sad is that this should be glaringly obvious to the judges but they choose to reward them for sloppy work just the same:no: It says a lot about figure skating and why many question with reason the integrity of the sport:scratch:

And giving two world record scores for those performances isn't going to boost the integrity level anytime soon.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Sure it is. It isnt a great program but technically they are by far the best pair right now, and they hit the bullet points required for good PC marks too, and so if they skate reasonably well they deserve to win, whether they have a masterpiece of a program or not. I doubt any of their competitors will either anyway based on the last few years of pairs skating.

The pairs field is just weak right now anyway. That a team like Duhamel & Radford nearly won silver at Worlds last year sums up the pairs field right now. There isnt really anyone to push V&T to better now, as their only competition is an old and declining German team.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
When viewed in contrast to some of the magical pairs programs we've seen in the past... No. This is not worthy.

When viewed against the current competition... yeah, sure. Why not? It's not as though there are a multitude of great pairs out there.

Do you see anyone who is going to put forth an epic and memorable performance and beat it?
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Sure it is. It isnt a great program but technically they are by far the best pair right now, and they hit the bullet points required for good PC marks too, and so if they skate reasonably well they deserve to win, whether they have a masterpiece of a program or not. I doubt any of their competitors will either anyway based on the last few years of pairs skating.

The pairs field is just weak right now anyway. That a team like Duhamel & Radford nearly won silver at Worlds last year sums up the pairs field right now. There isnt really anyone to push V&T to better now, as their only competition is an old and declining German team.

OK... we cross-posted and said the same thing. GMTA, I suppose.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Based on the current pairs the idea any of the current pairs would ever put out a program and performance at a high enough technical and artistic level to deserve to beat the program skated as well as it was there is hugely unlikely. The thought of Duhamel & Radford, old past their best Pang & Tong, Barazova & Larionova, old and past their best Kavaguti ever putting together something that would deserve to beat that is simply laughable, and anyone who even suggests any of those teams could conceivably do so I will laugh heartily at. The Germans are the only ones who conceivably could put together a program that would even arguably deserve to (and yeah I know even if they did they wont due to politics and momentum for the Russians now, but I am just talking about what would fair) and to do that they would have to have way better programs than last year, and skate cleanly which they havent been doing in years, and rarely did even in their primes.

So that obviously answers the question if it is Olympic Gold medal worthy. They arent competing against Gordeeva & Grinkov, in which case the answer would probably be different.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
In terms of interesting and "worthy" programs, the Germans have done a fine job all these years. Funny how so many people credit Ingo Steuer, but I don't recall his competitive programs being that interesting. Unfortunately, the Germans are encumbered by nerves and inconsistencies. The Germans do tend to overextend themselves by doing difficult elements that they're probably not technically capable of performing cleanly. When it comes to innovation, I'd give it to the Germans, even if they're not a classical pair with great lines.

I do agree with whoever said V&T have become lazy. Most of their new LP moves are old ones. Who's to blame them if the judges keep rewarding them? All the pairs are doing very difficult moves these days, and the only difference is that V&T managed to be clean.

If they're going to keep recycling old moves, they might as well kill the JC program and revive their Ikuko Kawai program for the Olympics. I'd like to be able to watch an Olympic performance over and over again, and I just can't watch a JC program repeatedly.
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
They have no motivations to improve their programs because they are still rewarded with 10 10 10s. The same with Davis and White.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
They have no motivations to improve their programs because they are still rewarded with 10 10 10s. The same with Davis and White.
Please don't drag D/W in here, because I might blow a fuse. But then again I need to vent, to see an obviously rough program (D/W), get 110 points at the start of the season:confused: Mind you IMHO, if the program were a masterpiece I could understand, but boy, it grieves me to see high marks just thrown away like that :bang:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Please don't drag D/W in here, because I might blow a fuse. But then again I need to vent, to see an obviously rough program (D/W), get 110 points at the start of the season:confused: Mind you IMHO, if the program were a masterpiece I could understand, but boy, it grieves me to see high marks just thrown away like that :bang:

They have no motivations to improve their programs because they are still rewarded with 10 10 10s. The same with Davis and White.

I started a new thread. So feel free to blow a fuse over there.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I do think their programs are a good vehicle for the Olympics
JC Superstand wasn't bad as I thought, its one of those program that as it goes you will learn to love/like
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
In terms of interesting and "worthy" programs, the Germans have done a fine job all these years.

They had been doing so for many years but their programs last year were the YUCK. One cant accurately say they even have better programs than V&T anymore, unless their this years material (which I have not seen yet) is alot better than last years.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
^ Maybe so, but V/T's FS this year, choreographically, is more yuck than anything the Germans have put out in their career, IMO.

Sure it is. It isnt a great program but technically they are by far the best pair right now, and they hit the bullet points required for good PC marks too, and so if they skate reasonably well they deserve to win, whether they have a masterpiece of a program or not. I doubt any of their competitors will either anyway based on the last few years of pairs skating.

The pairs field is just weak right now anyway. That a team like Duhamel & Radford nearly won silver at Worlds last year sums up the pairs field right now. There isnt really anyone to push V&T to better now, as their only competition is an old and declining German team.

D/R almost won silver because their technical content is more difficult than anyone in the field. It's exciting to see pairs skaters do something other than the two easiest triples, a salchow and loop throw, and call it day. V/T have lots of room for improvement in their two programs (which is to be expected at the start of a season), however there is not much improvement in the marks available since the judges gave them GOE like candy.

The main problem is that V/T have gotten to a point where their elements are so well done and their general speed and performance is strong, and they're Russia's biggest chance of a Sochi gold... that any old choreography, and the same jumping passes that we've seen for a decade are enough to garner points like that.

It doesn't matter if the Germans, or anyone else, have a better program... if V/T stay on their feet, the gold is theirs regardless.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Bramweld you asked about seeing folks live in the D/W thread

I will say that I have seen V/T live (at Skate America last year) and they are a class apart as far as execution of the elements. They are very fast and everything, when done well, looks easy and smooth. However, I could not stand that Godfather SP at all. I like their LP. So I can see why the judges give them high marks despite the errors. But given their polish and speed, it's frustrating that the choreo is so underwhelming.

I have to say as far as choreography the pair that stood out to me at SkAm was Pang and Tong. They were struggling on the technical elements (Tong, in particular), but their LP was a real standout.
 
Top