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Thread: Is Davis and White's FD gold mdeal worthy? (i.e, Are they getting lazy and unmotivated?)

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Is Davis and White's FD gold mdeal worthy?

    From the V/T thread I posted earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    They have no motivations to improve their programs because they are still rewarded with 10 10 10s. The same with Davis and White.
    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    Please don't drag D/W in here, because I might blow a fuse. But then again I need to vent, to see an obviously rough program (D/W), get 110 points at the start of the season Mind you IMHO, if the program were a masterpiece I could understand, but boy, it grieves me to see high marks just thrown away like that
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jq5nHn9mzc

    Here you go. Discuss.

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    Since I saw the free dance in person in Salt Lake, I would say they are definitely not getting lazy. They mentioned they have been working on the first lift for about two years in order to get it to the point it could be performed. It looks like it. I thought the lifts were amazing and I am very glad I got to see them in person first - before I saw them on video. The first one, especially, made me stop in my tracks and say "Whoa, How did they do that one."

    I do like Davis/White a lot and I hope they win the gold. However, after 25 years of actively watching figure skating, I find it hard for any skater to stop me in my tracks. Davis/White did.

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    Wow... that was absolutely a joy to watch! Definitely a gold-medal worthy program, and I love how they actually build the energy at the end. Edges and turns are textbook. Some of the lifts need a bit of refinement but wow, V/M will have their work cut out for them if they want to challenge for gold. The marks were obviously really high, but to me it was more worthy of the inflation than the NHT marks V/T got.

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    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    Moment said that? I'm not surprised. D/W have most likely never ever reached his/her "~high art~" standards judging by past posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    The marks were obviously really high, but to me it was more worthy of the inflation than the NHT marks V/T got.
    Thank you.

    Senior B event or not, though ... neither D/W not V/T actively earned as high as they were given.

    Still trying to figure out how V/T got three world-record scores. Don't think I'll ever understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.H.Black View Post
    Since I saw the free dance in person in Salt Lake, I would say they are definitely not getting lazy. They mentioned they have been working on the first lift for about two years in order to get it to the point it could be performed. It looks like it. I thought the lifts were amazing and I am very glad I got to see them in person first - before I saw them on video. The first one, especially, made me stop in my tracks and say "Whoa, How did they do that one."

    I do like Davis/White a lot and I hope they win the gold. However, after 25 years of actively watching figure skating, I find it hard for any skater to stop me in my tracks. Davis/White did.
    You know you are probably the second person I've witnessed saying that D/W are better live than on video, so I'm starting to believe there might be some truth to that. Because to this day the bad leg line of Meryl's drives me nuts especially in the Giselle SD, so they must be better live than on video. Anyone would like to elaborate here?

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    You know you are probably the second person I've witnessed saying that D/W are better live than on video, so I'm starting to believe there might be some truth to that. Because to this day the bad leg line of Meryl's drives me nuts especially in the Giselle SD, so they must be better live than on video. Anyone would like to elaborate here?
    Okay now on D/W live. They too were a class apart from the other competitors. Lots of speed, great ice coverage. And Giselle SD was extremely impressing to see when you're in the second row. They generate their own air conditioning when they do that polka because they are so crisp and fast!

    They also are great with connecting with the audience. They have amazing projection when they do their dances.

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    D&W are probably the hardest-working skaters out there, with the exception of Lysacek. This is a sport of workaholics which is absolutely necessary to get to the top. It's not so much laziness.... it's a lack of guts to take risks. This is the same pair that did Bollywood, never done before in skating (not to my knowledge). There is no pair that improved so much since they turned senior. Before, they were miles and miles behind V&M's technical edge, V&M being the more naturally gifted skaters. But now they're almost on par. Their Sheherazade program is very reminiscent of their senior debut program Borodin in terms of costumes and Easternesque flavor, and I much prefer Borodin. Their new LP doesn't express the technical improvements they've acquired over the years. I was not that happy to see them skate to Phantom, but as a program it was packed with extraordinary moves and excitement. It was brilliant, so I couldn't complain. Skating to classic overused music is safe. We've had a trillion discussions before about overused music, but judges do reward programs skated to overused music that are interpreted well. You can never complain that D&W doesn't do at least a competent job with doing justice to the music. Technically, this is OGM-worthy and they are already skating it very well early in the season. At this point, people expect so much more from them. It's too late for them to come up with their own Bolero now... but if there's a team that can do it, D&W can.

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    I don't think you can accuse any skater, even the ones with 'work ethic issues', as lazy. You could perhaps accuse Marina of being lazy with her choreography, but D/W themselves? Never. The program isn't ushering in a new era of avante-garde Art On Ice but it's still wonderful to watch and it's going to look amazing with some more mileage on it. I'd say it's worthy.

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    Yes, the scores for both D/W and V/T were ridiculously inflated this early in the season. On the other hand, to call D/W lazy, unmotivated, or imply their resting on their laurels, does them a grave disservice. Whatever you might think of them, D/W could probably get away with the sobriquet The Hardest Working Team in Dance. They've been GUNNING for this Olympic season since about 14 seconds after the medal ceremony in Vancouver, so I think the last thing you can say is that they're resting on anything--let alone their laurels. In fact, I think a real danger with the FD is that they can OVERwork it--which is precisely what I thought they did with their Phantom program. As it is right now, it seems to me more of a watercolor study for a large oil painting, rather than the painting itself. I expect changes in the choreography. And no, they could never have done this program without doing their much maligned tango first. Phantom was all balls to the wall. This was, even in this early stage, far more *danced* than Phantom.

    I was surprised, however, at how well I thought Get Me to the Church on Time worked for their Finnstep. Oddly enough, I thought the one thing that section of their short dance lacked was something somewhat simple: smiles. And the entry into their final lift is quite wonderful. But I do think the first half of that program is a bit rough as it stands. I expect changes there as well. It's just how they operate.

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    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Yes, the scores for both D/W and V/T were ridiculously inflated this early in the season. On the other hand, to call D/W lazy, unmotivated, or imply their resting on their laurels, does them a grave disservice. Whatever you might think of them, D/W could probably get away with the sobriquet The Hardest Working Team in Dance. They've been GUNNING for this Olympic season since about 14 seconds after the medal ceremony in Vancouver, so I think the last thing you can say is that they're resting on anything--let alone their laurels. In fact, I think a real danger with the FD is that they can OVERwork it--which is precisely what I thought they did with their Phantom program. As it is right now, it seems to me more of a watercolor study for a large oil painting, rather than the painting itself. I expect changes in the choreography. And no, they could never have done this program without doing their much maligned tango first. Phantom was all balls to the wall. This was, even in this early stage, far more *danced* than Phantom.

    I was surprised, however, at how well I thought Get Me to the Church on Time worked for their Finnstep. Oddly enough, I thought the one thing that section of their short dance lacked was something somewhat simple: smiles. And the entry into their final lift is quite wonderful. But I do think the first half of that program is a bit rough as it stands. I expect changes there as well. It's just how they operate.
    I don't get why there is so much bad rap about their tango. For me, it was perfect by Worlds and they deserved their title. Could be the V&M-bots having sour grapes.

    Yes, their new LP is like watercolor painting. Their style and technique have evolved to be more subtle, but I still think raw power and athleticism suits them better. I think they're trying to be a bit like V&M with the subtlety and softness. I'm not sure about their new LP but by the Olympics, it could be wonderful. Still think the unwritten rule/responsibility to be innovative still rests on them as World Champions and one of the greatest ice dancers to walk the earth.

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    Some of the choreography after the first half or so doesn't live up to the music, but I think probably some of that will be changed. But even in its present state it is OGM worthy imo

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    I expect this program to get much "fuller" and the choreo more connected over time to the music. Nothing about this program screams lazy.

    FWIW, I've skated in Canton (on FS ice on the *other* rink) and YES they are incredible in person (we peeked in) to watch. This was a few years ago, so I can only imagine what it's like to feel the breeze of them going by NOW.

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    The first time I saw their FD last season I thought: meh, V/M will mop the floor with them (I loved Carmen from the first sight). Then I saw D/W's FD at NHK trophy and I completely changed my mind. I am absolutely sure they will tweak this program a lot and the end result will be completely different. So far, I also think that for their standard it's disappointing but after last season, I will reserve judgment until, let's say, US nationals.

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    I don't understand what a lot of people write about their Tango: it's my probably my favourite D/W program

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Okay now on D/W live. They too were a class apart from the other competitors. Lots of speed, great ice coverage. And Giselle SD was extremely impressing to see when you're in the second row. They generate their own air conditioning when they do that polka because they are so crisp and fast!

    They also are great with connecting with the audience. They have amazing projection when they do their dances.
    Yes, compared to anyone in dance (other than possibly V/M who I have yet to see live) they have amazing speed and ice coverage. It is impossible to really understand till you've seen them live. I do think they seem faster on TV than most of the others, but in person it is like going from black and white to technicolor- and despite that they still get some of (if not the) highest levels.

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