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Thread: Is Davis and White's FD gold mdeal worthy? (i.e, Are they getting lazy and unmotivated?)

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvi5 View Post
    I have not read through the V/T thread so perhaps I missed something, but I don't see where Moment said anyone was lazy. I think what Moment meant was, there is less incentive to improve if you are already receiving perfect marks (whether deserved or not). I recall in a highschool business class (or was it law? - I had the same teacher for both), I had obtained a perfect 10 score on an assignment. However the teacher deducted one point on the grounds that nobody was perfect. At least he publicly announced his reason to the entire class.

    In any case, I think the skater's incentive to work harder is not so much the exact scores, but rather their closest rivals. In D/W case, V/M are the incentive to improve more (and vice-versa). Neither wants to lose. Without V/M, would D/W have been pushing themselves as hard (and vice-versa)? The fact that they train at the same rink further encourages more improvement, since they can see what their rivals are doing daily. It likely would have been hit & miss if they had been training at different facilities.
    Since I was the one that started the thread, I guess I should take responsibility for the title and provide some clarification.

    My main goal was to basically get the D/W comments out of the V/T thread and also I thought it would provide some spirited and lively discussion. And it did! (And tulosai provided that awesome article too).

    When I said "lazy" I meant more the way that you're illustrating it rvi5 (and Moment too), not in a "sitting around and eating bonbons" way but more on a "rest on your laurels" way. Like "Hey, I don't have to change/do anything because I already have As." Even high achievers have areas where they are lazy because they perceive they have "arrived" in that area.

    Hope that provides some clarity.

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    Thanks for clarifying. I think from the tone of later posts, some people may have assumed Moment had accused D/W of being lazy somewhere in the V/T thread.

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    (Quote) When I said "lazy" I meant more the way that you're illustrating it rvi5 (and Moment too), not in a "sitting around and eating bonbons" way but more on a "rest on your laurels" way. Like "Hey, I don't have to change/do anything because I already have As." Even high achievers have areas where they are lazy because they perceive they have "arrived" in that area. (Quote)

    I believe D/W already answered that question from their remarks quoted in several articles from the recent USOC Media Summit.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    KKonas, you are right.

    Also the anecdote from the article tulosai provided makes it clear that D&W don't believe in resting on laurels -In the articlere, there was a story told where Marina told D&W they are already getting perfect scores on twizzles; why are they practicing twizzles? And D&W said that they were practicing them because they were not doing them the best they could do yet, they didn't care what the score was.

    BTW, I don't think Tessa & Scott are stagnating either. Their efforts at creating new lifts shows that.

  5. #95
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    I would imagine that sharing the same training ice would prevent either team from getting lazy.

    It's not as though they have to guess at how hard their rivals are training... they see it every day.

    The constant motivation no doubt contributes to D/W and V/M being almost universally recognized as being head and shoulders above the rest of the field.... scattered critics notwithstanding.

  6. #96
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    Meryl and Charlie got a grilling from David Lease in this week's edition of 'This and That'

    Absolutely disgusting! He was mocking Meryl, her character and her voice in such a rude, scathing and cattish manner. They also implied that since they were so focused on getting the gold next year that they are unrelatable to others because they didnt have an Ashley Wagner response when asked about Russia's propaganda laws- absolute garbage.

    We all have an opinion on this serious issue but it's the athletes choice whether or not they want to go public on a political/human rights issue and we as a member of the public have to respect their decision As much as we demand others to respect our opinions and beliefs.

    It is rich of TSL as they had a whole segment in a previous video, taking a stance against those who destructively criticise skaters about their weight. It is not acceptable at all to make fat jokes (and i agree that this is a terrible and unfortunate problem which should not be tolerated) but apparently to David Lease attacking one's character, personality, opinions and voice through mocking, invective and poor impersonating is somehow acceptable.

    Increasingly, TSL has felt that it is entitled because they do great interviews (which i do enjoy alot and commend them highly for). All the empathy i had for them when they were refused media credentials at Salt Lake City is all out the window. If they want to be taken seriously, TSL needs to grow up, get professional and not feel so entitled to say whatever they want and expect then to be rewarded with credentials.

    In response to this question on the thread, meryl and charlie work so hard. Their free damce can very well lead them tio victory but its going to be a close affair.

  7. #97
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about the interviewers at the USFS media event who asked all the skaters about Russia's anti-gay law, not just about TSL. I applaud Ashley's strong stance against the law, and felt very uncomfortable listening to the other skaters, including Meryl & Charlie, stumble around trying to answer the question.

    But I wonder whether it's a fair question to ask athletes at all, especially those athletes whose federation (not to mention the IOC) told them all to stay out of it and let the federation & IOC handle it (like all US skaters) and also those who have sponsors who might have a corporate policy about staying out of political issues (like D&W and Kellogg's). These kids are not politicians, after all. They're just athletes.

    Furthermore, the interviewers put all the athletes at risk of problems in Russia, and not being able to compete at all, if they spoke out too vociferously against the law. Their other choice is to waffle & alienate some of their fans (like Dave Lease, in this case).

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    That's interesting, because he went on and on about their programs in their daily reports from SLC, and opined that they had a significant edge because they didn't do ice shows in the summer... instead working on their programs.

    So, one can only conclude that his criticism of their "not being relatable" and their "focus on getting the gold" stem from his personal hurt at their not taking a stance that he agrees with... and not the quality of their skating.

    Whoever denied them media credentials apparently made the right choice.

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    I've always felt it to be unfair to put skaters on the spot about any hot-button issue. For one thing, a lot of people that age don't know how to put words together, and anything could come out. For another, these kids are working so hard that their lives are completely wrapped up in a small, constricted world, and they might not be up on all the aspects of the issue in question. Doris's points about the corporate policy of their sponsors and other skating-related issues also hold true. People should speak up when they're ready to speak up. Then they say something meaningful, as Ashley did. Catching some hapless skater saying something awkward or contrary doesn't make the Putin law any more or less wrong, and it doesn't get the law overturned any faster.

    After John Lennon was shot dead, some reporter with a microphone found Paul McCartney and asked him what he thought. After some other phrases, McCartney finished up by saying, "It's a drag." Lennon fans, their feelings already raw with grief, took that as evidence that McCartney didn't care at all that his former bandmate had lost his life. Whatever their differences, the two men had been closer than brothers for most of their youth, and it was not possible that Lennon's death was merely "a drag" to Paul. Maybe he hadn't slept that night. Maybe he was so emotional that he covered up with a flip statement. Who knows why that silly phrase slipped out of his mouth? If a savvy guy like that, with twenty years in the spotlight, could be caught out in an unguarded moment, how can we expect some wet-behind-the-ears kid to sound like Winston Churchill?

  10. #100
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    well after seeing the fiascos of V and M clearly D and W current free dance is gold medal worthy. Imaginative and inspiratinal maybe not but it no contest. The OGM is D and W with a nice big bow on top

  11. #101
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    ^ What was wrong with Virtue and Moir's free dance at Finlandia? I thought it was great. Some of the lifts need to get smoother, but the same is true of Davis and White. I think it will go down to the wire, as usual.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ What was wrong with Virtue and Moir's free dance at Finlandia? I thought it was great. Some of the lifts need to get smoother, but the same is true of Davis and White. I think it will go down to the wire, as usual.
    ITA. And V&M's SD this year is much better shape than their SD's in many previous years were in what is still the pre-season for senior elite skaters, so they have time to iron out problems with the FD.

    It's easy to be a bit disappointed with V&M's Seasons FD after Carmen, and with D&W's My Fair Lady SD after Giselle. A team can't come up with their best ever choreo every time. All 4 dances from both teams are in good shape for this point of the season.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I have mixed feelings about the interviewers at the USFS media event who asked all the skaters about Russia's anti-gay law, not just about TSL. I applaud Ashley's strong stance against the law, and felt very uncomfortable listening to the other skaters, including Meryl & Charlie, stumble around trying to answer the question.
    I wish that skaters, including Meryl and Charlie, had prepared more elegant responses along the lines of what Ashley said. On the other hand, I don't see much of a difference between the non-answers and Ashley's response, which was incredibly mild (though appropriate, I think). She only said she disagreed with the law and then backed off harsher criticism. I assume most skaters share this opinion. It's not like she said this law was a farce and that she is reluctant even to compete in Russia this season because her family and friends may be put in danger.

    The effect of speaking out against this law really only gets the skaters more attention. The law has already gotten lots of publicity, in part because of the Olympics, and most of the industrial world is outraged by it. A skater saying he/she personally disagrees with it doesn't do much more than get the skater get a positive write-up from Phil Hersh.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by GF2445 View Post
    Meryl and Charlie got a grilling from David Lease in this week's edition of 'This and That'

    Absolutely disgusting! He was mocking Meryl, her character and her voice in such a rude, scathing and cattish manner. They also implied that since they were so focused on getting the gold next year that they are unrelatable to others because they didnt have an Ashley Wagner response when asked about Russia's propaganda laws- absolute garbage.

    We all have an opinion on this serious issue but it's the athletes choice whether or not they want to go public on a political/human rights issue and we as a member of the public have to respect their decision As much as we demand others to respect our opinions and beliefs.
    They weren't rude or scathing, and they were absolutely correct. Meryl&Charlie essentially lied, in a very lame manner. They obviously have some kind of opinion on the matter and decided to just ignore it and fabricate a story ("we've never talked about it" - what a joke, you've never once talked about this issue, EVER?). It's entirely accurate to say they are hurting their careers. Because really, in the end, what does an Olympic Gold mean? It will of course give great personal satisfaction to win, but after working so hard in skating your whole life, don't you want it to result in other opportunities? Not to mention that you are representing a sport which desperately needs to attract a larger audience right now.

  15. #105
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    Dave Lease is a joke. Why does anyone have to care what he cares about? Russia under Putin is an autocracy and oligarchy. These guys are the ones in power. Unless Lease and his cronies find a way to oust them, why put athletes on the spot? It's not the athletes' fault or job to correct these problems. They have enough to worry about. Not everyone needs to have political opinions and stances that he agrees with. Not everyone needs to be a martyr or crusader. Talk about projecting his standards unto people. Another nail on the TSL coffin.

    V&M's FD was very disappointing. There were some sublime moves as usual, but this just looks like Mahler Part II, a la Candeloro's Godfather sequels. I do agree that whatever it is they're doing, they're conceding to D&W.

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