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Thread: Is Davis and White's FD gold mdeal worthy? (i.e, Are they getting lazy and unmotivated?)

  1. #106
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    I honestly don't care one bit what any of them did or didn't say about the law. Even if D/W had said they're in favor of the law, I'd still think their skating was top notch and OGM worthy.

    I also don't really think they care too much about their skating leading to other opportunities. Both are pursuing a quality college education that they doubtless expect to be more instrumental in their job search than their figure skating careers. I am not suggesting they'd scoff at endorsements or other opportunities, but having flown under the radar for so long due to the lack of popularity in ice dancing, I doubt it'd be any big loss to them.

    I do also agree with some other comments that asking the question at all puts the skaters in a very uncomfortable position. They have been told a stance to stick to, and not sticking to it might have subtle but real implications for them. I also don't think that athletes should 'need' to use their celebrity to advance a social issue if they do not want to, and that if they do want to which social issues they choose to advocate for should be up to them. It's not really fair to say skaters X Y Z are awful people because they wouldn't speak out about this specific law.

    To be totally clear, I hate the law as much as anyone. But I don't think that's relevant to what skaters should say or be expected to say.

  2. #107
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I also don't think that athletes should 'need' to use their celebrity to advance a social issue if they do not want to, and that if they do want to which social issues they choose to advocate for should be up to them. It's not really fair to say skaters X Y Z are awful people because they wouldn't speak out about this specific law.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by GF2445 View Post
    Meryl and Charlie got a grilling from David Lease in this week's edition of 'This and That'

    Absolutely disgusting! He was mocking Meryl, her character and her voice in such a rude, scathing and cattish manner. They also implied that since they were so focused on getting the gold next year that they are unrelatable to others because they didnt have an Ashley Wagner response when asked about Russia's propaganda laws- absolute garbage.
    Wait a minute: David Lease was mocking Meryl's voice? Isn't he the guy who sits next to Jenny Kirk for all those interviews on TSL? No offense to Jenny as a person or a journalist, but under the circumstances....

  4. #109
    Custom Title Kitt's Avatar
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    Mocking his interviewee?

    and this guy wants to be taken seriously as a journalist? What a joke!

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I honestly don't care one bit what any of them did or didn't say about the law. Even if D/W had said they're in favor of the law, I'd still think their skating was top notch and OGM worthy.

    I also don't really think they care too much about their skating leading to other opportunities. Both are pursuing a quality college education that they doubtless expect to be more instrumental in their job search than their figure skating careers. I am not suggesting they'd scoff at endorsements or other opportunities, but having flown under the radar for so long due to the lack of popularity in ice dancing, I doubt it'd be any big loss to them.

    I do also agree with some other comments that asking the question at all puts the skaters in a very uncomfortable position. They have been told a stance to stick to, and not sticking to it might have subtle but real implications for them. I also don't think that athletes should 'need' to use their celebrity to advance a social issue if they do not want to, and that if they do want to which social issues they choose to advocate for should be up to them. It's not really fair to say skaters X Y Z are awful people because they wouldn't speak out about this specific law.

    To be totally clear, I hate the law as much as anyone. But I don't think that's relevant to what skaters should say or be expected to say.
    Exactly.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    They obviously have some kind of opinion on the matter and decided to just ignore it and fabricate a story ("we've never talked about it" - what a joke, you've never once talked about this issue, EVER?). It's entirely accurate to say they are hurting their careers.
    That's a huge assumption, and very biased.

  7. #112
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I have mixed feelings about the interviewers at the USFS media event who asked all the skaters about Russia's anti-gay law, not just about TSL. I applaud Ashley's strong stance against the law, and felt very uncomfortable listening to the other skaters, including Meryl & Charlie, stumble around trying to answer the question.
    Doris, do you by any chance mean that audio and/or video of the press conference at the media summit is available online somewhere?
    Or do you mean that Davis/White (and other American skaters) were asked the same type of question in one or more of their individual interviews with specific media outlets?

    I did read the Hersh article that focused on what Wagner said (and to a lesser extent on what Lysacek and Abbott said).
    And I'm aware that other print articles also covered this ground with Team USA skaters.

    But I would be interested to hear with my own ears anything that any of the Team USA skaters said on this issue. Thanks.

  8. #113
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    golden, I don't think any audio is available.

    For the record, here's the part about Meryl & Charlie: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...zawadzki-sochi

    Tuesday, the only likely individual U.S. figure skating medalists in Sochi, reigning world champion ice dancers Meryl Davis and Charlie White, also chose not to take a public stand on the anti-gay legislation.

    “I don’t think we can speak because we haven’t really talked about between the two of us very much,’’ White said.

    “I don’t think the Olympics is really the right place for an athlete to make a political statement,” Davis said.

    Asked if this was not a political issue but a human rights issue, White said, “Unfortunately, it’s semantics. To Russia, it is a political statement. And they are the host country. I think that is probably all we will say on the subject.”
    I think perhaps you can easily take Charlie's statement is that they haven't discussed it at length, not that they've never talked about it ever. I wouldn't blame them if they felt they hadn't thought about it enough to make a statement. And that doesn't mean they're bad people.

    Like everyone else, they have other priorities regarding how they want to make a difference in this world. For me, Ashley's response isn't a reflection of being better trained to respond to the media, but because she felt a deep conviction about the topic.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion. It isn't shared by many of the skaters/fellow competitors themselves, past or present, or other coaches, or many fans. Some people did not understand the concept or art of Carmen, or perhaps didn't want to. These are normally the same people who don't watch, understand or appreciate modern dance on the floor. V/M Carmen was groundbreaking because it really worked to take the principles of real dance on the floor and stage and bring it to the ice. It was likely the most difficult program ever done on ice. It was executed with incredible lines, attention to detail, speed, power, emotion, .... It was the closest thing I've ever seen to marrying ice dance into art and sport. It really transcended COP, which is evidenced by how it was and wasn't judged throughout the season. They proved that COP does not need to be formulaic, and only about elements. There is nothing wrong skating to classics. People complain about D/W sometimes because they do re-use many concepts, stylings and yes, elements. I don't blame them. They are staying with what they know, doing it well, and racking up the points. When V/M skate, to me, it really is art, from unique choreography, new elements, and attention to all the details from the top of their heads to the tips of their fingers and toes. Their lines, expressions, everything is so in sync. They are truly once in a generation team. D/W are fantastic skaters and great athletes. I like watching them. They are very nice people. My favourite programs of theirs would have to be Bollywood and Samson. But for me, V/M are the perfect combo of sport and art, real dancers. And for me, this is ice DANCE.
    I agree with everything you say! As an ex dancer & modern dance fan I loved V/M's Carmen, was so impressed they pushed themselves in a new way. But to each his/her own. Some were shocked & disturbed by the program - of course that's sometimes the intention of modern dance - to evoke strong emotion. The story of Carmen isn't a pretty one. Those who saw it as "vulgar" and "pornographic" - well, perhaps that's what's in your mind to begin with. I enjoy both top teams but prefer V/M because they truly dance & transcend ice dance, making it art.

  10. #115
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    golden, I don't think any audio is available.
    Thanks, Mrs. P. Because Doris used the word "listening," I thought I had missed an opportunity to hear audio for myself.

    And I hasten to add that I was not asking about audio because I want to point fingers at any of the skaters. Quite the contrary.

    As I commented in another thread some days ago, Wagner absolutely has my respect for what she said.
    At the same time, I do not think it is my place to find fault with any of the skaters for however they responded. I believe strongly in the good hearts and fine character of Davis/White and others.

  11. #116
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    As a D/W fan, I don't believe they will win gold this year. V/M's programs are excellent, and they still have OGM rep. Schez is ok, but I can't seem to get into My Fair Lady. I think both V/M's programs are better than D/W's. (But it's still the beginning of the season; maybe they will get better.) I never have liked the "romance style" but V/M have some pretty exciting lifts. I counted V/M as having more exciting acrobatic moments than D/W (of course this is not all that counts towards the score.) I can even admit that Scott has gotten extremely balletic-looking, where he and Tessa look almost equal.

    It has me worried, but the amount of ridicule, hand-wringing and attempting to counteract jinxes by saying that "D/W are going to win by politics! The season is over for V/M! Hmph!" is ridiculous. Let me just take a gander at some of the many fallacies:

    "D/W do the same tired warhorse music, lifts and programs."
    - Mahler 2.0 is the same program as 2010, down to the romance, dress, music nobody recognizes, and woe-is-me big eyes;
    - V/M fans did not have a problem when V/M skated to warhorse Carmen;
    - When was the last time V/M skated to Bollywood?
    - Both teams have elements that are used, re-used, invented, recycled, modified, etc. Who really cares if every element has been done or not done before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt K View Post
    I will hazard a guess that D/W have not been doing the 3-set twizzles because they would fall right off on the third set.
    And V/M don't do a hop into their twizzles because they would fall right off...

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    I agree with everything you say! As an ex dancer & modern dance fan I loved V/M's Carmen, was so impressed they pushed themselves in a new way. But to each his/her own. Some were shocked & disturbed by the program - of course that's sometimes the intention of modern dance - to evoke strong emotion. The story of Carmen isn't a pretty one. Those who saw it as "vulgar" and "pornographic" - well, perhaps that's what's in your mind to begin with. I enjoy both top teams but prefer V/M because they truly dance & transcend ice dance, making it art.
    To me, virtue and Moir's Carmen was an amazing piece of work. Unfortunately, the skaters never performed it to its potential. Little problems here and there with the execution held them back. JMO.

  13. #118
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Given the divergent views on this forums regarding both D/W and V/M's programs I think it's going to be hard to predict who is going to come out ahead!

    It's worth noting that the GOE of both D/W and V/M were pretty much the same (12.0+) and the 10 point difference in the scores at their respective events were a product of levels. I've noted this before that in the eyes of the judges they are about equal. Their +GOE and PCS are pretty much hairsplitting at this point.

    But that's been the story for the entire quad.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitt View Post
    and this guy wants to be taken seriously as a journalist? What a joke!
    It wasn't an interview. It was one of those gossip/shoot-the-breeze sessions just between Jennifer and David that they put under the title "This and That." The main point that David was making is that Ashley forthrightly spoke her mind while everyone else, in particular Davis and White, "hid behind the USFSA and the USOC."

    Lease also thought that Davis and White have blah personalities, like Lysacek, and so will not be in demand for endorsements, TV interviews, etc. Whatever.

  15. #120
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitt View Post
    and this guy wants to be taken seriously as a journalist? What a joke!
    Furthermore, Lease is jeopardizing the skaters' careers by forcing them to make a statement. It's all "cool," "fashionable," and "progressive" in some countries to "speak out" their political views, but in some countries that can lead to disasters. Forcing skaters to speak against Putin and his policies is essentially putting the skaters in a tough spot, when it is clear that any dissent against Putin will endanger a person especially if they are on Russian soil. Lease is naive and has no idea how bad things can get.

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