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Thread: Is it glaring that Trankov is a worse skater than Tatiana?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I don't think it's glaring. Like other posters have said, Maxim is better than Stanislav was. I'm not sure if Maxim was really THAT much better than Maria though.
    In jumps he was. He lands them most times, whereas Maria most times did not land them. (Yes, I know, now we will get posts when people will be reminding this and that competition when actually he missed his jump whereas she did land it, but his success rate in landing them was definitely much higher than hers).

    The reason why Maria placed with her new partner 7th at their nationals and lost the support from their Federation was that she did not land the jumps when it counted.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think Maxim does have powerful presence, even though Tatiana is a better skater. Usually in pairs the point is to showcase the woman and have the man facilitate the elements. It's not like ice dance where both partners need similar skating ability (exception being Margaglio being glaringly worse than Fusar-Poli). There's more refinement in Tatiana's skating, but it's not like Maxim is "keeping up".
    I thought it was Babs who was glaring at Margaglio - you know one of those evil soap opera stares!!!! That is truly glaringly evil.lol

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I thought it was Babs who was glaring at Margaglio - you know one of those evil soap opera stares!!!! That is truly glaringly evil.lol
    Hah, I didn't even realise my choice of words until you pointed it out. That glare could have killed him on the spot!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I thought it was Babs who was glaring at Margaglio - you know one of those evil soap opera stares!!!! That is truly glaringly evil.lol
    V&T are nowhere the case of Babs and her boy. Maxim is still a very talented skater and competitor, while Tatiana simply looks better. They wouldn't have reached that much success in such a short time if their basic skating skills were that far off from each other. Babs and Mau languished in the ranks for years before they finally rose to the top and couldn't stay there in which quite a few times their hopes were directly destroyed by Mau's subpar skating skills. It's all Babs' fault IMO; everyone with eyes can see Mau wasn't at her level. It was her job to find a better partner. I don't think Mau was ever OGM material, while Babs had a shot with the right partner. Finding a suitable partner for Babs is probably another miracle. Death glares aren't good partnership material. For purposes of striking fear, yes, but it's not going to magically make an OK skater into a brilliant one. Rodnina also did death glares, and her partner was so emasculated.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I don't think it's glaring. Like other posters have said, Maxim is better than Stanislav was. I'm not sure if Maxim was really THAT much better than Maria though.
    Maria was getting better by the last year or two of their partnership. The biggest problem they had by then was their lack of on ice chemistry (not surprising given how bad their relationship was revealed to be) and their lack of federation support. Most of their partnership he really was a ton better than her. In the early years she could barely rotate a twist, could barely land throws on a decent edge, couldnt jump, and she had no presentation or performance skills at all for years.

    Even if Maxim isnt that much better than Maria, Tatiana definitely is. Just look at the difference in the size and quality of the twists, lifts, and throws, despite it being the same guy throwing and lifting her up.

  6. #21
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    I agree that it's not glaring.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    They were robbed of some titles by being undermarked on technical elements- 2012 Grand Prix final for instance where they skated clean in both programs and still lost lost to S&S who had a mistake in both. If they lost there it should have been on PCS, but they lost on TES to the Germans who have a much weaker twist and a mistake in both programs, which was crazy.
    What are you smoking really? V/T had multiple falls and their lp is a disaster. You lost all your credibility when you mentioned 2012 Grand Prix final. Just watch yourselves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOC1m2__DYs

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple123 View Post
    What are you smoking really? V/T had multiple falls and their lp is a disaster. You lost all your credibility when you mentioned 2012 Grand Prix final. Just watch yourselves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOC1m2__DYs
    I think he was referring to the year before. V/T won that SP (and with higher PCS) and had a slightly cleaner free... but look at the scores, the Germans had higher BV in both segments, so their minor errors were made up for. Couple that with V/T still being relatively fresh out of the gates as a team and still working on their chemistry, and it's no surprise that the Germans beat them. I would hope that you look at the score sheets before you suggest things like so-and-so got robbed.... or if so-and-so had received the same PCS as the person who placed ahead of them, they would have won.

  9. #24
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    Mm no. And I love how they are exactly as good-looking and emotionless as each other on ice. Perfect match I would say. These two should really stick around for another quad as I think they would only live up to their inner dramatic nature (especially Trankov's) while facing some real challenges.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple123 View Post
    What are you smoking really? V/T had multiple falls and their lp is a disaster. You lost all your credibility when you mentioned 2012 Grand Prix final. Just watch yourselves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOC1m2__DYs
    I am referring to the 2012 season Grand Prix final genius. Which is obvious by the very fact I mentioned the competition vs S/S, while S/S werent even at this past seasons Grand Prix final.

  11. #26
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    My point of view is as follows:

    Not the ability is glaringly different. They both have good basic skills.
    The problem is that Tatiana seems to be a very strongly minded, sympathetic sportman unless Maxim, who has his childish, diva-like (shall I say feminine?) attitude, causes many serious and basic faults.
    Whatever happens Maxim always the one who has to be hugged and supported by her.

    On the top of it: Tatiana has a very tasteful style while Maxim tends to tastlessly exaggerate things destroying the whole atmosphere time to time.

    I simply think that the 2 are not in the same league intellectually, that makes the obvious difference, not the basic skill.

    I would hire a sportpsychologist for him, but with these mountain high points, what could be the reason to spend money on that......?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I am referring to the 2012 season Grand Prix final genius. Which is obvious by the very fact I mentioned the competition vs S/S, while S/S werent even at this past seasons Grand Prix final.
    You made a mistake and instead of owning up to it, you spin it. Who else call it 2012 Grand Prix final? It happened in 2011, genius! And let's be honest, with the judges firmly on their side, V/T would never lose a competition unless they totally screw it up, just like 2012 Grand Prix final. Oh wait, they even won that one with a disasterous lp. Bravo!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    Mm no. And I love how they are exactly as good-looking and emotionless as each other on ice. Perfect match I would say. These two should really stick around for another quad as I think they would only live up to their inner dramatic nature (especially Trankov's) while facing some real challenges.
    Agreed.

    The thread has, I presume, a deliberately leading title.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple123 View Post
    You made a mistake and instead of owning up to it, you spin it. Who else call it 2012 Grand Prix final? It happened in 2011, genius! And let's be honest, with the judges firmly on their side, V/T would never lose a competition unless they totally screw it up, just like 2012 Grand Prix final. Oh wait, they even won that one with a disasterous lp. Bravo!
    Like everything else you are wrong, since I already pointed out V/T skated 2 clean programs and lost the 2011/2012 season Grand Prix final to the Germans who had a mistake in both programs. If you dont believe me look up the performances which are up on youtube, or the protocals which are available at the ISU site yourself.

    The thing to keep in mind is despite this talk about V/T being the judges pets V/T have NEVER won an event they didnt deserve to win, even their Grand Prix final title last year nobody argues Barazova & Larionov deserving the victory over them, and they certainly have never had a win over S/S they didnt deserve. By contrast one could argue V/T should have won both the 11/12 Grand Prix final and the 2012 Worlds, and some did argue that at the time. Granted some agreed with S/S wins at those events too. The point is anytime it is even questionable the judges have gone with S/S so far, and V/T have only won when they were clearly better. So by that if anything it is S/S who are the judges pets. On top of that it is S/S who have a history of questionable wins, not V/T- 2008 Worlds which was a huge controversy at the time with most people thinking both the Zhangs and Dube & Davidson should have beaten their messy skate, 2011 Europeans over Kavaguti & Smirnov, one of their grand prix events they won with a meltdown worse than any V/T have had since teaming up. Before V/T seemingly became the judges favorite last season (although still never having a controversial win unlike S/S's history) S/S were the ones talked about the judges pets who were held up with falls and major errors their whole careers. How quickly people forget.

    PS- if either team had a questionable "result" last year it was Savchenko & Szolkowy's silver at Worlds which was in fact booed by the audience.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    By contrast one could argue V/T should have won both the 11/12 Grand Prix final and the 2012 Worlds.

    Sure, let's just all disregard their terrible SP .... http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SP_Scores.pdf

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