Thanks dorispulaski for the nice welcome.
I've heard top coaches say that fixing flutzes at the triple level isn't possible in all cases, if not the majority. The technique gets so ingrained that a lot of times the skaters can't even do a proper half lutz. So just because a skater continues to flutz hardly means that they've made no attempt to fix it. Fixing a lip would seem to be more doable than a flutz. In either case, I would much rather have the jump attempted than omitted just as long as they call it correctly. I definitely don't want to see technical content going back to the 1980's. I've also heard it suggested that the lutz and flip be considered the same jump like the toe loop and toe walley. I don't agree with that though because they are distinctly different jumps unlike the latter where it's debatable whether a true toe walley is ever really done or not.
BUT. Reteaching the kid, while technique is not fully settled yet is pretty much possible. Lots of examples here: Rachael Flatt, Julia Lipnitskaya, Yuki Nishino etc. All had flutzes, but than corrected it to a proper edge take off. But you need a coach who knows a real thing about teaching jumping technique. Not so many coaches do((
Personally I believe these edge problems come from elimination of compulsory figures.
Current rule is much more profitable to skaters whose weak/not-mastered jumps are 3Lz or 3F than to skaters whose weak/not-mastered jumps are 3Lo or 3S.
Consistent flutzers/lippers can do 7-triple program without breaking the Zayak rule doing actually three 3Lz(3F)s in LP or repeating three kinds of triples, while latters have to choose between to fail/fall frequently at weak jump(ex. Yamaguchi) and to be restricted to 6-triple program by omitting 3S or 3Lo(ex. Kim).
And, IMO, the more skaters (who have a wrong edge problem) care about jumping at the correct edge, the more the jumps get inconsistent(ex. Ando).
In most cases, you can tell that the skater intends a certain jump.
I am not opposed to counting lips/flutzs as lutzs/flips, but in fact, this would make very little difference to the total score of a skater like Mao who can now do all other jumps including 3-axel well. In her case, she would replace the one lutz she does in the long program with a double-axel. Her flutz if she got -2 GOE would be 6.0 (base point) -1.4 which is 4.6. Her double-axel with +2 GOE would be 3.3 + 1.0 which is 4.3. The double-axel would additionally probably go into the second-half which would make it 4.73.
Counting lips/flutzs as flips/lutzs would therefore only affect skaters with a lesser jump repertoire.
I've seen coaches who say "good enough" at the single/double flip/Lutz point and don't enforce jumping off a correct edge. Some of these coaches will tell their students that they "have" a given jump and move on to the next because that helps the perception that the student is "improving" - ie, working on harder elements rather than beating on the easier one to make it right. This makes me very sad for those skaters because they COULD be good, but haven't been taught rigorously enough to be that good. It's the same as teaching the skater to rotate and allow things to go to any old method to get it done (wrapped jumps, spinny, icky jumps that are barely/under rotated, etc)
I've also seen technique issues become magnified when the skater starts seriously working on the triple version of their jump nemesis.
It goes both ways
Considering the sheer amount of skaters at the top level who have edge issues, singling out certain skaters to take the blame is :roll eye: I feel the real problem is that edge issues were virtually ignored for years. It's very hard to correct something that had been ingrained in your muscle memory for years. And just because a skater hasn't corrected the problem does not mean they have not tried/ or do not care to. Elite skaters are competitive enough to to not want any deductions if they could help it. Skaters who don't have edge deductions will have the advantage over those who do if other elements are equal.