Orser and Wilson - just go back to Hanyu's 2012 LP and Fernandez's 2013 LP

Blades of Passion · Oct 6, 2013

Orser and Wilson - just go back to Hanyu's 2012 LP and Fernandez's 2013 LP

Stop pretending your new Romeo&Juliet is better for Hanyu. This music has clearly been chosen because you saw how much people loved his Romeo&Juliet in 2012, but the new program is nothing compared to the original. Just admit the former was better and you can't top it, and do the right thing for Hanyu. It would be very easy to alter the old program to incorporate the Quad Sal. Look, I'll even do the basic work for you - take Hanyu's old program and slot the elements as such:

4Sal
4Toe
3Flip
FCCoSp4 (flying camel entrance, into upside down position, down into corkscrew sit position, change foot to pike sit spin, up into beillmann)
3Axel+2Toe
Footwork Sequence
3Axel+3Toe
3Lutz+half loop+3Sal
(ina bauer sequence)
3Loop
3Lutz
Choreography Step Sequence
FCSSp4 (difficult flying entrance, cannonball position, change foot to tuck position for 8 revolutions)
CCoSp4 (backward camel entrance, change to donut position, change of foot with a jump into sit position *or* regular change into broken leg sit, after 2 revolutions do a jump into regular sit position, then end with a scratch spin)

-----

As for Fernandez, it's just plain obvious how much better his program was last year. Ego shouldn't even get in the way here, since you made it to begin with.

Hanyu and Fernandez are worthy of being Olympic Champions, but without the correct vehicles they will not be given the scores they need to top an on-form Patrick Chan.

Kalina · Oct 6, 2013

Very interesting. However, Hanyu was the one who decided to skate to Romeo and Juliet again, and he was the one who decided on the music.
I can't comment on Javier as I have yet to see his program.

If you want Orser/Wilson/Yuzuru/Javi to read this, it might be better if you contacted them in another way. Orser advises all of his skaters not to read what is written on them on the internet, and Yuzuru especially, after stumbling upon a 'chat site' that, from his description, sounds suspiciously similar to this board. Considering this, the likelihood of them reading your post are slim at best.

Blades of Passion · Oct 6, 2013

Kalina said:
It might be better if you contacted them in another way.

Oh, they already have been. I'd just like to get some groundswell support going.

This matter is not actually just about Hanyu and Fernandez. It's about the sport as a whole. The Olympics are vital for bringing new interest into the sport. People aren't going to watch Hanyu's and Fernandez's current programs and be inspired to become fans, donate to the support, or skate themselves. Well, some people will of course, but not nearly as many.

The Olympics are a critically important showcase for ice skating, therefore the skating needs to be the best it can be.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 6, 2013

How about they do new programs and not rely on stuff that everyone has seen?

If anyone wants to see what Hanyu's and Fernandez's old LP's looked like, there's always YouTube. Presenting old programs is a poor way to make the sport seem progressive and worth people's interest currently.

yyyskate · Oct 6, 2013

Blades of Passion said:
Oh, they already have been. I'd just like to get some groundswell support going.

This matter is not actually just about Hanyu and Fernandez. It's about the sport as a whole. The Olympics are vital for bringing new interest into the sport. People aren't going to watch Hanyu's and Fernandez's current programs and be inspired to become fans, donate to the support, or skate themselves. Well, some people will of course, but not nearly as many.

The Olympics are a critically important showcase for ice skating, therefore the skating needs to be the best it can be.

exactly, I started to learn skating, right after I watched Yuna's 2010 olympic performances, I don't know a thing about figure skating before. Now I am an uber fan and really love this beautiful sport.

Blades of Passion · Oct 6, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Presenting old programs is a poor way to make the sport seem progressive and worth people's interest currently.

Except people don't even know they are "old" programs. Millions who don't follow figure skating will watch it via the Olympics.

Also, neither Fernandez nor Hanyu ever skated the programs completely perfect anyway (and in Hanyu's case the jump layout and some other details would be changing). So why not try to do your best program perfectly?

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 6, 2013

Blades of Passion said:
Except people don't even know they are "old" programs. Millions who don't follow figure skating will watch it via the Olympics.

Also, neither Fernandez nor Hanyu ever skated the programs completely perfect anyway (and in Hanyu's case the jump layout and some other details would be changing). So why not try to do your best program perfectly?

These days, who ever skates their programs completely perfect? I think 2013's Euros was about as good as we'll ever see that Charlie Chaplin program. Hanyu's was him coming out of the juniors.

There's something to be said about a skater who performs their best program perfectly (I mean, how would you feel about Joubert doing the Matrix in Sochi), and one who acknowledges that in spite of something that already works for them and that they're comfortable with, they're actually going to push themselves and try to present something new. I'm frankly quite disappointed with skaters like Chan and Hanyu for re-hashing their past programs. You'd think they'd see the Olympics as the opportunity to do something really amazing that doesn't just win gold but is regarded as innovative and groundbreaking. Re-hashed programs do not equal groundbreaking, IMO.

Blades of Passion · Oct 6, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
These days, who ever skates their programs completely perfect? I think 2013's Euros was about as good as we'll ever see that Charlie Chaplin program.

How could you think that? Fernandez changed a jumping pass and was adding bits of choreography throughout the whole season. It was his first season attempting 3 Quads and the 3Flip-half loop-3Sal combination. You expect a skater to perfectly execute one of the most difficult jump layouts of all time in their first season of trying it? Get real.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
How would you feel about Joubert doing the Matrix in Sochi.

Joubert has already skated that program essentially perfect, many times, and he has already brought it back...many times. That is a completely different story. It also wasn't ever a masterpiece program to begin with, just a very good program for him. He's capable of more, or at least something different on the same level. With Fernandez and Hanyu, though, their older programs are clearly FAR AND AWAY superior and they have room to improve them.

Mrs. P · Oct 6, 2013

I feel differently: I liked Yuzuru's new FS a lot at first viewing. And just to confirm my feeling, I watched the 2012 FS from Worlds and the Finlandia program back to back.

I absolutely loved the 2012 FS. I felt he showed a lot of power and passion in that program.

This year's FS is a bit more refined and dancy. I really liked the different transitions he had into and out of his jumps. In particular, I like this transition into his 3Z-1L-3S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EkVx3jyFUg#t=04m10s

I think with some more work (namely, once he gets the transitions and technical aspect more he can focus on performing it more), it will be a fine program. And the audience at Finlandia didn't hate it either, he got some loud applause and a partial standing O for it.

sequinsgalore · Oct 6, 2013

Geez... Both Hanyu og Fernandez have only skated their new FS one time this season and both deliverede above expectation (I think), so I don't see the reason for doom and gloom.

Personally I really liked Hanyu's new Romeo & Juliet. It fits his skating style and though it's in the same style of his Romeo+Juliet from 2011-12, I see more refinement and elegance on this one. I feel like this program has OG potential if he delivers at Sochi.

Fernandez' program I need more warming up to. It doesn't have the built-in charm of Charlie Chaplin, but I like to see him try out new things.

Jaana · Oct 7, 2013

I like Javier´s new programme very much! One should understand that of course it is still developing as in past year Chaplin was as it was introduced at Finlandia Trophy. During the seaon the programme got better and better and Javier interpreted it better and better.

I think Orser gave an excellent advice to his skaters. Skaters don´t benefit from reading various opinions about their skating or programmes, they only confuse, in my opinion. They have their coach and the choreographer, which are enough for a skater and in this case they both are among the best in the world.

Javier´s new freeskate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdRF04KZKZg

Li'Kitsu · Oct 7, 2013

I'm on a similar track, I really liked Hanyus new LP (though I was very, very pessimistic about it before). If I'd had to decide, I'd still say I like his old Romeo more, but then again we saw his new program just once.

Olympic worthy is a very bendable term. It depends on the other programs being performed to, and out of the top men I think Hanyus LP is the best, at least out of the programs we've seen so far (if I'm a little nervous for anyone, it's Daisuke). Besides that, given the way the PCS are used (sticking to the TES, no variation between marks ect.) I'm not sure an Olympic win will depend at all on the programs - although it should. And I guess it's a whole different discussion to start about how likely anyone would beat an on-form Chan anyway...

giulia95 · Oct 7, 2013

Kalina said:
Very interesting. However, Hanyu was the one who decided to skate to Romeo and Juliet again, and he was the one who decided on the music.
I can't comment on Javier as I have yet to see his program.

If you want Orser/Wilson/Yuzuru/Javi to read this, it might be better if you contacted them in another way. Orser advises all of his skaters not to read what is written on them on the internet, and Yuzuru especially, after stumbling upon a 'chat site' that, from his description, sounds suspiciously similar to this board. Considering this, the likelihood of them reading your post are slim at best.

If Yuzuru was really free to decide about his Olys programs, as you claim, he wouldn’t have skated to PW SP two days ago for sure. The whole world knows about that issue because the kid screamed it out loud in Japan some months ago unfortunately in vain.

No doubt Orser himself decided to apply the recycling policy to Yuzuru, differently from what he offered to Yuna Kim and Javi now for Olys. But,
like it happened last season , it’s quite curious to realize how quickly some fans address all the responsabilities to Yuzu immediately.

Finally I totally appreciate Mr.Orser amazing sense of humor when he suggested Yuzu not to read the forum , and expecially GS I would say , or he could discover the very shocking news his coach doesnt’t actually believe in him as an OGM contender.

And it’s even funnier because of this:
www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm :yay:

this anusual and odd situation doesn’t suggest an idyllic scenario at the CC , it suggests something like a comedy going on. Yesterday the last act happened beetwen Yuzu and Wilson, when Wilson was watching the other skaters at the boards instead of being with Yuzu waiting for his FS...:scratch:.

hopefully Yuzu was not alone.. there was Pooh to cheer for him! :laugh:

giulia95 · Oct 7, 2013

I totally disagree with the recycling policy , but actually it’s a relief old Romeo is back after an unforgivable NDP and not to mention the ear devastating PW electric guitar for one more year.....

It’s just my feeling but the new R&J could have the same potential as the 2011 FS, because it’s totally Nanami’s style , it has a similar structure and a powerful and emotional finale that has already been showed yesterday... Yuzu is in his comfort zone, he visibly likes the music a lot..., it’s such a big relief!

Finally I’m very happy Yuzu wasn’t gasping or collapsing at the end of the FS, he’s thin as usual but he looks stronger!!!

GO YUZU GO!!!!! :clap:

jennyanydots · Oct 7, 2013

Well, that's your opinion. I liked both their new programs, and they should only get better with more mileage. I loved the old ones too, but if they get recycled there's going to be outcry as well. The only complaint I have right now is Yuzu's costume. Sorry Johnny, but your creations are only fabulous on you.

plushyfan · Oct 7, 2013

I much prefer Yuzu's old Romeo, and his old costume...

miki88 · Oct 7, 2013

Hanyu's old program was passionate and intense. One of my favorite programs in recent years. This new program feels so generic. I so wish he can go to a different choreographer who can bring out that passion in him again.

plushyfan · Oct 7, 2013

miki88 said:
Hanyu's old program was passionate and intense. One of my favorite programs in recent years. This new program feels so generic. I so wish he can go to a different choreographer who can bring out that passion in him again.

:agree:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 7, 2013

miki88 said:
Hanyu's old program was passionate and intense. One of my favorite programs in recent years. This new program feels so generic. I so wish he can go to a different choreographer who can bring out that passion in him again.

I agree. But with a new program.

I think people will always compare this program to R&J. Clearly coming out of the junior ranks he was capable of something as great as R&J so after a few years on the senior circuit theoretically he should be able to come up with something even better rather than fall back on something that people have seen (and have seen him perform almost as good as it can get, at that).

Paola D · Oct 7, 2013

Hanyu admitted after FP he put too much focus on jumps because they were not good or consistent in practice and he was so nervous about them. I couldn't hear what he and Wilson were talking about in K&C, but some people online said Wilson pointed out to Hanyu he had taken away much of choreography of the FP while skating this time. Some Japanese media reported there were a lot of passion in the program in practice , but Hanyu looked tentative in FP, particularly in the beginning, and the passion was gone.
It seems the problem was not choreography, but that he couldn't deliver the good of FP sufficiently this time. The program looked fantastic in practice videos.

Orser and Wilson - just go back to Hanyu's 2012 LP and Fernandez's 2013 LP

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Kalina

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

CanadianSkaterGuy

yyyskate

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

CanadianSkaterGuy

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

sequinsgalore

Jaana

Li'Kitsu

giulia95

giulia95

jennyanydots

plushyfan

miki88

plushyfan

CanadianSkaterGuy

Paola D

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