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Thread: Orser and Wilson - just go back to Hanyu's 2012 LP and Fernandez's 2013 LP

  1. #31
    Custom Title EricRohmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msteach3 View Post
    OMG here we go again...are you really a Yuzu fan or is it more a hatred of Brian Orser that fuels your wrath? Come on, Orser is doing a great job with BOTH Yuzu and Javi as these guys certainly have a shot at a medal in Sochi. Yuzuru has recently said he is happy with keeping his SP as it gives him more time to focus on his LP.

    I happen to prefer the older R&J program, but reusing that from two years ago would never happen. I think this new version will get better and better and I look forward to watching it progress as the season goes on.

    Let your vendetta against Orser go and put your energy into cheering on Yuzu. Please!
    giulia95 might be Nanami Abe.
    Big love for Hanyu, small uncomfortableness for team Orser.

    JK

  2. #32
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    Please don’t say such a thing about Nanami Abe. I feel so sad….
    She had been Yuzu’s coach since 2005-2006 at least. I think she discovered and developed his faculties.
    His success is of course due to his natural talent but depend on her way of the instruction.

    Not widely known even in Japanese fan, Abe is instructor of miyagi FigureSkatingClub(Yuzuru belonged once).
    She isn’t only his coach and his choreographer , furthermore she is a mother of two little children.
    A smaller one is maybe about four or five year’s old(Sorry this is not accurate information!!!).
    And the rink environment is VERY poor in Japan. His excessively short training time is not the only his physical examination and school.
    He became very famous especially after the 2012 World Championship, he won’t practice at all I suspected.(Before 2012 World , you see he responded many fans at rink). didn’t have a private rink like Mao or Takahashi(They have both university’s rink.)

    Therefore, it was limit of training Sendai for him. If he leave Sendai, she must leave,too, But she has family including children in Japan….
    She must send away Yuzuru with tears….

  3. #33
    Custom Title EricRohmer's Avatar
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    Sorry, kriwyr1009.
    I realize my post was not advertent regarding Abe.
    I know she is a respectable coach!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kriwyr1009 View Post
    Please don’t say such a thing about Nanami Abe. I feel so sad….
    She had been Yuzu’s coach since 2005-2006 at least. I think she discovered and developed his faculties.
    His success is of course due to his natural talent but depend on her way of the instruction.

    Not widely known even in Japanese fan, Abe is instructor of miyagi FigureSkatingClub(Yuzuru belonged once).
    She isn’t only his coach and his choreographer , furthermore she is a mother of two little children.
    A smaller one is maybe about four or five year’s old(Sorry this is not accurate information!!!).
    And the rink environment is VERY poor in Japan. His excessively short training time is not the only his physical examination and school.
    He became very famous especially after the 2012 World Championship, he won’t practice at all I suspected.(Before 2012 World , you see he responded many fans at rink). didn’t have a private rink like Mao or Takahashi(They have both university’s rink.)

    Therefore, it was limit of training Sendai for him. If he leave Sendai, she must leave,too, But she has family including children in Japan….
    She must send away Yuzuru with tears….


    Sweet Nanami is a pure genius like Yuzu. The fact that Romeo is back is an immense tribute to her finally and definitely.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor2014 View Post
    No, the old R&J was mainly choreographed by Natalia Bestemianova and Igor Bobrin. They also taught Hanyu how to present the program, so Hanyu’s artistry increased a lot that year under their guidance. Abe didn’t do much in the choreography and presentation of R&J. You can check Abe’s other works, including the works she did for Daisuke and Mura. All Abe’s works are pretty generic. She is incapable of choreographing such beautiful program like R&J.

    Hanyu asked to go to Russia to study with Bestemianova and Bobrin before he went to Orser, but was refused because the Russian Fed considered Hanyu a main rival and did not let B&B take him. So he had to go to Orser. I also think it’s impossible for him to work with B&B at least this season due to Russian Fed. It’s a pity, but that’s just how things work. I do hope he will have chance to work with B&B sometime in the future though.

    Well, for this season I can only hope Hanyu succeeds with his new R&J program. It’s also a nice program. I think most of the audience don’t know Hanyu has skated to the old R&J program and they will like the new R&J program. So for the sport’s popularity, the new R&J won’t hurt.
    What!? Do you have a source that Russian couple mainly choreographed those programs and that he wanted to go to B&B to coach him?
    I’ve read a lot of Japanese articles but as far as I read them, I haven’t seen any articles which say the Russian couple mainly choreographed those programs. (They say Abe mainly choreographed those programs and he went to Russia to brush up the choreography after that. And you see some changes in choreography if you compare his performance in the shows before the competition began to those in competitions.) And I’ve read there were several choices in his mind when he decided to leave Sendai, but I haven’t read that he asked B&B but he was declined. I’m not distrusting you but perhaps there are some misunderstandings or misinterpretations between Russia and Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by Paola D View Post
    Hanyu admitted after FP he put too much focus on jumps because they were not good or consistent in practice and he was so nervous about them. I couldn't hear what he and Wilson were talking about in K&C, but some people online said Wilson pointed out to Hanyu he had taken away much of choreography of the FP while skating this time. Some Japanese media reported there were a lot of passion in the program in practice , but Hanyu looked tentative in FP, particularly in the beginning, and the passion was gone.
    It seems the problem was not choreography, but that he couldn't deliver the good of FP sufficiently this time. The program looked fantastic in practice videos.
    Yes, in the practice video, the choreo looked much more impressive

    Well, we should consider that things are always changing. Skaters are always changing physically, technically and mentally, as time goes on. And their circumstance changes too.
    Talking about Hanyu, 2011-2012season was a really special season for him (as he himself remarks) because it was the season when the earthquake hit Tohoku. He had a hard time and it seems to have mentally affected him a lot. I suppose many fans thinks Yuzuru is a really passionate skater because of his LP in 2011-2012, but watching his performance before 2011, he had not skated that passionately. And 16 -17 years old man and 18-19 years old man are different in every way.
    What I found amazing about his old R&J program is that Abe sublimed his unfocused sorrow and resentment against the earthquake into the passionat expression of Romeo. I think it was a perfect way to package him and really great choice of music for him at that time. But in my humble opinion, the choreography itself (I mean each movement in the program) was not so much impressive.
    I think “artistic” is one thing and “emotional” is another. His LP in 2012 Worlds was really heart-touching to me, but I think he can’t do the same thing now because he must have calmer feelings now as time pasts. I think now he needs more maturity and refinement to be more artistic. He had real passion and wildness but he needs to present them to the audience in more refined way.
    Well, maybe I wrote in a too dramatic way especially about the earthquake, but I don’t think he can do 2012World’s performance every year if he had trained with Abe for another year.

    I think this year’s R&J program is impressive and more refined than the old one. But it seemed to require huge stamina to skate that program perfectly. 2 quads 8 triples (including two 3lutzs and two 3axel-combinations in the second half) and lot of transition…
    And what I felt frustrating is his costume!! I really hope him to change it. I guess maybe his team and Johnny didn’t want the program regarded as a copy of his previous R&J program and wanted to make a different impression, but I think it doesn’t fit that choreography. The choreo is rather tangible including some kinda pantomime-like movements (looking upon the balcony for Juliet, for example), so I think the costume which is the same type to the one 2years ago would make that program look much better.

    As for Fernandez, I think it’s possible to change his LP to the last year’s one if his new LP doesn’t work well with him. (I’m talking just about possibility. I hope his LP will be great) It earned large score and it’s not a big damage for him if he wouldn’t get good scores in GPS or Nationals. He will surely be selected as a representative to OG.

  6. #36
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    I think Chan's and Plushenko's "best of" are enough. I want to see new programs at the Olympics.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by airin View Post
    What!? Do you have a source that Russian couple mainly choreographed those programs and that he wanted to go to B&B to coach him?
    I’ve read a lot of Japanese articles but as far as I read them, I haven’t seen any articles which say the Russian couple mainly choreographed those programs. (They say Abe mainly choreographed those programs and he went to Russia to brush up the choreography after that. And you see some changes in choreography if you compare his performance in the shows before the competition began to those in competitions.) And I’ve read there were several choices in his mind when he decided to leave Sendai, but I haven’t read that he asked B&B but he was declined. I’m not distrusting you but perhaps there are some misunderstandings or misinterpretations between Russia and Japan
    Thank you very much for clarification, airin

    I really really love his Romeo&Juliet 2011-2012 version and the most favorite program of mine even now. I will never forget the performance in the Worlds 2012. However, I don't particularly wish him to repeat that program in the competition. (But to see it in the gala or show is another story) Because it won't be the same as it was in that special season imo.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricRohmer View Post
    giulia95 might be Nanami Abe.
    Big love for Hanyu, small uncomfortableness for team Orser.

    JK
    It can’t be Nanami let him go to Canada with understanding and respect for Yuzuru
    So I think she is the last person who wants his fans to say “How miserable you are to have such a horrible coach now!”
    (I know you are just joking and making an irony to some fans who don't have sense to refrain from making a hateful posts about his coaches with consideration for other members' feelings, though )

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yude View Post
    Thank you very much for clarification, airin

    I really really love his Romeo&Juliet 2011-2012 version and the most favorite program of mine even now. I will never forget the performance in the Worlds 2012. However, I don't particularly wish him to repeat that program in the competition. (But to see it in the gala or show is another story) Because it won't be the same as it was in that special season imo.
    Airin and Yude, we have almost the same thought on this. His old R&j is a great program but it not just the program that make old r&j so emotional. It is his journey that season - earth quake, no place to train , knee injuries, mistake in sp and the fall before 3a that why the performance at world is so memorable - it like he send message that don't worry about him anymore no matter what happen he will rise up. The magic like that will not likely to be replace again.

    I think it great that he doesn't return to the program; it is a time for change and keep finding challenges; although the new program might not be as emotional there so many good aspect and is a bit more mature than the old one.

    Sorry for a fan rant!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kriwyr1009 View Post
    Please don’t say such a thing about Nanami Abe. I feel so sad….
    She had been Yuzu’s coach since 2005-2006 at least. I think she discovered and developed his faculties.
    His success is of course due to his natural talent but depend on her way of the instruction.

    ...

    Therefore, it was limit of training Sendai for him. If he leave Sendai, she must leave,too, But she has family including children in Japan….
    She must send away Yuzuru with tears….
    You make me a bit weepy with this sentence... sigh... but it is so true!

    Who knows... may be Hanyu will do like what Yuna has done and eventually go back to his child hood coach again once he became more more established, stronger and more experienced and do what he needs to do to become the very best. All talented kids have to grow up some how and mature in their own ways. There's no right or wrong method really, just whether it will work or not. Many are not so lucky. I am sure some tough love can lit more fire within him.

    As for the title of this thread. It is to be expected really, consider just how absolutely mind blowing his original R&J is like a typhoon level FOUR, nearly knocked my socks off. Anything is certainly going to pale in comparison, I am just thankful this current R&J is better than last year's Notre Dame program, although certainly I am very disappointed he is compromising his artistry for a gold medal, since what was so exciting about watching him perform was the no holding back approach and constant attack, now it seems he is more careful and controlled. In anycase he is just doing what Mao and many are doing for their Olympic year program, playing safe, to stay well within their comfort zone rather than taking risks. It may or may not pay off... we will see.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    ............

    As for the title of this thread. It is to be expected really, consider just how absolutely mind blowing his original R&J is like a typhoon level FOUR, nearly knocked my socks off. Anything is certainly going to pale in comparison, I am just thankful this current R&J is better than last year's Notre Dame program, although certainly I am very disappointed he is compromising his artistry for a gold medal, since what was so exciting about watching him perform was the no holding back approach and constant attack, now it seems he is more careful and controlled. In anycase he is just doing what Mao and many are doing for their Olympic year program, playing safe, to stay well within their comfort zone rather than taking risks. It may or may not pay off... we will see.
    Mao's eight-triple FS for the Olympic season is playing safe? I prefer Hanyu's new R&J to the original one artistically. I guess that's because I don't like a level Four Typhoon style but appreciate a more gentle and lyrical way to emote. I also found that Hanyu's better posture makes me like his new R&J much more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treeloving View Post
    Airin and Yude, we have almost the same thought on this. His old R&j is a great program but it not just the program that make old r&j so emotional. It is his journey that season - earth quake, no place to train , knee injuries, mistake in sp and the fall before 3a that why the performance at world is so memorable - it like he send message that don't worry about him anymore no matter what happen he will rise up. The magic like that will not likely to be replace again.

    I think it great that he doesn't return to the program; it is a time for change and keep finding challenges; although the new program might not be as emotional there so many good aspect and is a bit more mature than the old one.

    Sorry for a fan rant!
    agreed and well said!

  13. #43
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
    I also found that Hanyu's better posture makes me like his new R&J much more.
    That doesn't really have anything to do with the programs, though. It's a personal improvement that can be applied to any program he skates.

    I think the most interesting counterpoint so far is "Hanyu wouldn't be able to skate his 2012 program with the same emotion again." I don't believe that's true, at least not by the time the Olympics come, but it's an worthwhile consideration.

    -----

    BTW, I'm more worried about Fernandez.

  14. #44
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    Fernandez is looking great don't worry. He is developing just nicely. He will podium and with the 4s wow he will probably win OGm. lIFE IS ABOUT TIMING AND BEING AT YOUR TOP INT HE OLYMPIC CYCLE Sadly Dai and Patrick were at the wrong time but imho more "deserving' of winning OGM but I am thinking Javier will win it.

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    I just watched old R&J and new R&J back to back, I have to admit I prefer the old one. He has so much speed and better extension/lines in the old R&J. Well, the new R&J do have more difficult transitions, and several genius highlights, e.g. that counter 3A-rippon 2T etc. But as a whole, the old R&J tells a story so affecting, every segments seamlessly woven together. Yuzu definitely has more feeling and connection to the music. (From Finlandia practice video, which is better performed than competition, you can tell Yuzu is intentionally trying to feel and interpret new R&J and amazing musicality there too). I think this is because, this old R&J has accompanied him 60 shows when his rink was damaged by earthquake and has became a part of him...
    As Yuzu get more experience with the new R&J, it may feel different. One thing about Yuzu is that, he tends to change whatever into his own (or put his own imagination into his performance or character), not strictly follow choreography. So as we all saw from Finlandia SP, Yuzu apparently showed much better controlling/commanding of this SP now. I will wait and see how he gets into his new R&J, which may evolve into a great program in the future. Last season, he is kinda completely lost in the choreography and could not find his orientation. This new R&J, I think will be better.

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