Results 1 to 15 of 199

Thread: The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    49

    The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

    Jenny Kirk and Dave Lease of The Skating Lesson have definitely made an indelible mark for themselves this season.

    Some of their interviews have been really interesting and fun. When guests like Frank Carroll and Sandra Bezic did the talking, I became a fan. Now that the season is actually under way however they seem to be very focused on bringing attention to their own views on certain issues and are attacking certain skaters on the basis of issues that more to do with who these skaters are as people than their actual skating.

    In the October 6th This and That, they take aim at Maia Shibutani, Alex Shibutani and Meryl Davis in a way that is really, well, no other word for it, but ugly.

    Jenny and Dave have always made it clear they dislike and disrespect the Shibutani's. From posted comments people actually perceive that the correct term is "hate." Jenny and Dave can dislike their skating if that is their opinion. What they do though is focus on attacking their character and who they are as people. They find them childish and "12 years old", insinuate that they are dishonest people. Without seeing them skate yet they conclude that their approach to the season is "one giant mistake."

    The Skating Lesson obviously prefers other ice dance teams. They are entitled to have their preferences and opinions, no question about it. The repeated attacks on the Shibutanis however are very much about who they are as people.

    What is really equally strange to me is that Jenny and Dave have done a 180 on Meryl. They used to put Meryl Davis on a pedestal, like she could do no wrong. Their admiration was almost on par with their fandom for the Michele. But especially because Meryl and Charlie did not express views about the Russian anti-Gay laws that were aligned with their personal views, they rant on about how "idiotic" they are. Idiotic. Really? Meryl is inappropriately too wrapped up in her quest for a Gold medal.

    TSL can think whatever they want and share their views with whomever they want about their programs and skating. Nobody including myself is forced to watch or listen. But as hard working young people who are in my opinion very decent and honest ambassadors for their sport, I don't think Maia, Alex and Meryl deserve this kind of treatment. Just my opinion.

  2. #2
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    873
    Why people still find these two remotely interesting baffles me.

  3. #3
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,592
    Eh, I find it best just not to watch. I've already shared my piece regarding my disagreements with TSL so I won't repeat it here.

    The best thing to do is to support the Shibutanis by watching their videos over and over. I'm hoping they're YouTube content partners so they get a portion of the ad revenue.

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,172
    You can always tell when someone does not like someone's skating and personality. They attack something other than the skating or music or choreography. I find it disturbing that Jenny Kirk goes on and on saying "it's about the honesty!"

    Honestly, why would you pick on Maia, Alex and Meryl. From everything I've ever seen of them all 3 of them seem like some of the most intelligent, decent, positive people in the sport.

    Mrs. P what are you disagreements with TSL? They crossed (another) line her, don't you think?

  5. #5
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,011
    Your perceptions are incredibly wrong. I guess you don't understand sarcasm, witty banter, or truthful concern? They don't dislike any of these people you have named and if they did, so what? It's an OPINION, shared forthrightly and for a very real purpose.

    It's clear that too many members of the human population still can't handle dealing with uncomfortable truths or thoughtful analysis. Better to just look at the surface of everything and/or ignore problems, right? Such a backward mentality.

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    I've notice that the word "honest" is used in all sorts of odd ways these days. When someone makes some uncensored comment, it's referred to as "honesty," and when someone is reserved or (Heaven help us) repressed, that person is castigated for being "dishonest." Honesty involves ethical behavior. An honest person keeps his hands out of the till, accepts the blame when he makes a mistake, and doesn't spread lies about other people. People don't have to divulge full and complete opinions about every topic on cue in order to qualify as honest.

  7. #7
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,328
    ^ That's a great point. When Meryl and Charlie say, "We haven't talked much about it," that is a polite way of saying, "We're not going to tell you what we talk about."

  8. #8
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    979
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I've notice that the word "honest" is used in all sorts of odd ways these days. When someone makes some uncensored comment, it's referred to as "honesty," and when someone is reserved or (Heaven help us) repressed, that person is castigated for being "dishonest." Honesty involves ethical behavior. An honest person keeps his hands out of the till, accepts the blame when he makes a mistake, and doesn't spread lies about other people. People don't have to divulge full and complete opinions about every topic on cue in order to qualify as honest.


    I stopped reading and listening to TSL’s interviews for obvious reasons (no matter how interested I am in the interviewee).

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, vocally or quietly. Why should one be judged harshly just because one does not conform to the views or react in the same manner as some others? Do we all owe each other an explanation on our behavior and thoughts if these behavior and thoughts do no harm to anyone?

    It is sheer hypocrisy to judge others when it suits but not when it comes to self. Let us live by the old adage, don’t do onto others what you don’t want others to do unto you.


    Quote Originally Posted by brighphoton
    It is okay if Scott Hamilton, the Shibs, Meryl and Charlie, and Virtue and Moir, Evan Lysaceck, Gracie Gold, Agnes Z, and countless others at media summits turn a blind eye toward possible mistreatment of their fellow gay athletes at the Sochi Games.

    It is NOT okay if David Lease and Jenny Kirk express their negative opinion about that on their blog.
    Yes, TSL is entitled to their opinions. BUT … when they used their interview vehicles to put their guests in uncomfortable scenario, and paint them as deficient in character, it is unprofessional. These skaters are amateur athletes. They are not paid professionals and politicians. Most of them are supported by their parents and families in their training. Who would want to subject their daughters and sons to such bullying?

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    249
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Your perceptions are incredibly wrong. I guess you don't understand sarcasm, witty banter, or truthful concern? They don't dislike any of these people you have named and if they did, so what? It's an OPINION, shared forthrightly and for a very real purpose.

    It's clear that too many members of the human population still can't handle dealing with uncomfortable truths or thoughtful analysis. Better to just look at the surface of everything and/or ignore problems, right? Such a backward mentality.
    +1. Anyone who has consistently watched TSL knows that Dave & Jenny have been complimentary toward the Shibs and hugely supportive/superfans of D&W. They've made me invested in skating again because they're making these skaters into personalities again, which is something the sport has so lacked.
    And commenting on the Shibs music choice or comments that D&W made at the freaking Media Summit is all fair game. I love that they own their opinions.

    And I say this as a huge Meryl Davis fan.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,147
    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    Why people still find these two remotely interesting baffles me.
    I have never found them remotedly interesting. At best background noise, and at worst nasty and vile. I occasionaly watch when they have someone I really really like on, but just to hear that person, certainly not to hear Dave and Jenny. I especialy love those like Debi Thomas who basically talk over them and do 95% of the talking for that show so I dont have to listen to Dave and Jenny much. Especialy since Debi Thomas and everything she had to say was simply captivating and worth 30 times more than anything Kirk and Dave would ever have to say.

  11. #11
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,047
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I have never found them remotedly interesting. At best background noise, and at worst nasty and vile. I occasionaly watch when they have someone I really really like on, but just to hear that person, certainly not to hear Dave and Jenny. I especialy love those like Debi Thomas who basically talk over them and do 95% of the talking for that show so I dont have to listen to Dave and Jenny much. Especialy since Debi Thomas and everything she had to say was simply captivating and worth 30 times more than anything Kirk and Dave would ever have to say.
    What they are - attention whores and social rejects. They haven't amounted to anything in life and thus this is the only thing that makes them feel special.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,147
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    What they are - attention whores and social rejects. They haven't amounted to anything in life and thus this is the only thing that makes them feel special.
    ITA, and while I would usually feel mean saying or even agreeing to that about someone, but in their case not as much since Dave Lease especialy has been incredibly nasty for years, making fun of and ridiculing many great athletes on his blog. Fumie Suguri was one of his favorite targets for years, he couldnt stop going on about someone who was simply doing what she loved to do, as silly as it might be at this point.

    Jenny Kirk ridiculing Cohen and her comeback at every turn was just about as bad. Especialy speaking of someone who kicked her butt everytime for many years (actually that was probably the root of the whole matter). Someone who never did better than 15th at Worlds writing in 5 seperate blog entries that 4 time World and Olympic medalist Sasha "could not handle pressure". Even better she said in one article that Sasha would be viewed as a dissapointment and failure once again if she somehow failed to win gold in Vancouver (while everyone with a brain knew even winning a bronze in Vancouver would be a miracle for Sasha by that point).

  13. #13
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,801
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I don't know about these interviews. Aunt Joyce is entertaining. Jenny is a breath of fresh air in a sport that had Peggy whose grammar is lousy as chief commentator for decades. She never said anything the least bit interesting and hated Tara for her confidence.
    A seldom honest comment made that clear as she adored MK. Fauning. I like that these people speak thir minds to a point. They are hardly outrageous. Hardly groundbreaking.

    There is a thread in politics about Putin. But given how many gay men in the sport refuse to speak up...it shows how scared people are to be themselves. If one is a gay skater and refuses to speak up for oneself, can you expect others to champion you?

    I respect an Ashley Wagner more than say ??? people who allow bashing of people for being what they were born to be. At what price an Olympic medal?
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    One thing you can say for Dave and Jenny--you'll never be bored. But people tend to forget just how acerbic dear Uncle Dick Button could be. If I remember correctly, he once compared Surya Bonaly's free leg in a spin to a sausage. Lord knows the weeks of vitriolic hysteria that comment would provoke on skating boards if it were made now. And the thing is, Uncle Dick was right (but then he usually was).
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As for Alex and Maia Shibutani, in the October 6th This and That piece the criticism was mainly in comparison with Chock and Bates. Jenny "couldn't take her eyes off Madison Chock" (neither could I ). In contrast, the Shibutani's have not been able to shed their cute brother and sister vibe, and choosing to go with Michael Jackson in their quest for an Olympic medal is "a big mistake." I agree, they need a theme with more substance.
    Yup. I honestly think the brother/sister team thing puts an inherent ceiling into their program/presentation choices despite all their technical talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Dave is reacting emotionally, in pain, angry that this is happening because he is gay and is fearful for his friends and himself. Could not a law happen here? He is reacting negatively to those who will not speak up in front of a camera, while they are very close to gay skaters. He has his own blog. It apparently is no longer complimentary of those big name skaters who will not speak out.. Clearly he is hurt and afraid at this frightening Russian law and ramifications in other places.
    Your post highlights his position (and the others who care) into a much clearer context with real consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Jenny Kirk ridiculing Cohen and her comeback at every turn was just about as bad. Especialy speaking of someone who kicked her butt everytime for many years (actually that was probably the root of the whole matter). Someone who never did better than 15th at Worlds writing in 5 seperate blog entries that 4 time World and Olympic medalist Sasha "could not handle pressure". Even better she said in one article that Sasha would be viewed as a dissapointment and failure once again if she somehow failed to win gold in Vancouver (while everyone with a brain knew even winning a bronze in Vancouver would be a miracle for Sasha by that point).
    I remember this, and as a fan of Cohen I recall roasting Kirk on these forums. Yes, it did seem to me at the time that she had a personal chip on her shoulder against Cohen. And...I've gotten over it and changed my mind about Kirk regarding this blog/project because 1) everyone grows, and I think she's grown past that, and 2) it doesn't change the fact that I think she is now doing what I think is a good, honest job.

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,910
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    What they are - attention whores and social rejects. They haven't amounted to anything in life and thus this is the only thing that makes them feel special.
    Well isn't that the very definition of the pot calling the kettle black. But at least Mr Lease isn't doing it from behind the relative safety of a screen name.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •