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Thread: The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

  1. #16
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Let me get this straight, I want to make sure I have your argument right.

    It is okay if Scott Hamilton, the Shibs, Meryl and Charlie, and Virtue and Moir, Evan Lysaceck, Gracie Gold, Agnes Z, and countless others at media summits turn a blind eye toward possible mistreatment of their fellow gay athletes at the Sochi Games.

    It is NOT okay if David Lease and Jenny Kirk express their negative opinion about that on their blog.

    k.
    What's the alternative? Martyrdom? If that's your thing, it's your thing, but don't expect others to play along.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ That's a great point. When Meryl and Charlie say, "We haven't talked much about it," that is a polite way of saying, "We're not going to tell you what we talk about."
    This. They need to read between the lines. Some skaters are more diplomatic than others. If they took Wagner's stance they would draw attention to that, if they said what Abbott said, they would come under fire. Instead of criticizing those who won't go to war, we should focus more on those who are brave enough like Wagner. D/W do not want to get involved and while words of support would be nice it is also their prerogative to choose not to get involved. Bottom line: I don't want somebody to speak up because they are pressured to or feel compelled; I want them to do it out of their own courage and genuinely coming from their own hearts.

  3. #18
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    The alternative is to acknowledge that D&J have their own blog and that they are bringing up a completely legitimate issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    What's the alternative? Martyrdom? If that's your thing, it's your thing, but don't expect others to play along.
    Conversely, don't expect every one else to pick up a stone to toss at TSL.

    Frankly, the "gay propaganda" issue is turning out to be one of THE major pre-stories of Sochi. I wouldn't trust a reporter's ability if he or she did NOT ask the skaters their opinion on the subject. Of course the skaters have a perfect right to evade answering the question, but shouldn't be surprised that a non-answer is, in this case, newsworthy as well. Geez!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Conversely, don't expect every one else to pick up a stone to toss at TSL.

    Frankly, the "gay propaganda" issue is turning out to be one of THE major pre-stories of Sochi. I wouldn't trust a reporter's ability if he or she did NOT ask the skaters their opinion on the subject. Of course the skaters have a perfect right to evade answering the question, but shouldn't be surprised that a non-answer is, in this case, newsworthy as well. Geez!
    And we should speak out about it, as we have been doing. But we're not the ones going to Russia. Also, I'm not sure that in this case, and with that wording, David Lease is acting as a reporter or as a concerned civilian.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Conversely, don't expect every one else to pick up a stone to toss at TSL.

    Frankly, the "gay propaganda" issue is turning out to be one of THE major pre-stories of Sochi. I wouldn't trust a reporter's ability if he or she did NOT ask the skaters their opinion on the subject. Of course the skaters have a perfect right to evade answering the question, but shouldn't be surprised that a non-answer is, in this case, newsworthy as well. Geez!
    ?????

    Never expected that, no. Don't need to. TSL make themselves unpopular enough.

  7. #22
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    I think it's legit to raise it as an issue, but the manner/language in which TSL make their point often comes off sounding mean-spirited and full of self-entitlement. How they criticize others reflects badly on them and maybe they ought to be a bit more media-savvy about how they present themselves.

  8. #23
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    This. They need to read between the lines. Some skaters are more diplomatic than others. If they took Wagner's stance they would draw attention to that, if they said what Abbott said, they would come under fire. Instead of criticizing those who won't go to war, we should focus more on those who are brave enough like Wagner. D/W do not want to get involved and while words of support would be nice it is also their prerogative to choose not to get involved. Bottom line: I don't want somebody to speak up because they are pressured to or feel compelled; I want them to do it out of their own courage and genuinely coming from their own hearts.
    Very eloquently said. I agree that Ashley was not trying to make a political statement with her words, but simply acting out of her own personal convictions and beliefs. She should get props for that.

    Likewise, let's be reminded that people live out their convictions and beliefs differently. Not everyone does it by making some public declaration.

    I guess the part that bothered me more was Dave's rant where he called Meryl an idiot "and totally unlikeable" regarding her answer for some USFSA fluff video was their current FD music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0LnZIU-WVs#t=01m50s. I mean it's like he was digging up every past example to prove his point that Meryl was an unrelatable person.

    (Yes, I did go watch that part. Honestly his rant on Meryl was just plain cruel. It's one thing to question her answer at an interview, but calling her "unlikeable" and "an idiot," especially on something completely unrelated was uncalled for).

  9. #24
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    Dave is reacting emotionally, in pain, angry that this is happening because he is gay and is fearful for his friends and himself. Could not a law happen here? He is reacting negatively to those who will not speak up in front of a camera, while they are very close to gay skaters. He has his own blog. It apparently is no longer complimentary of those big name skaters who will not speak out.. Clearly he is hurt and afraid at this frightening Russian law and ramifications in other places.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Very eloquently said. I agree that Ashley was not trying to make a political statement with her words, but simply acting out of her own personal convictions and beliefs. She should get props for that.

    Likewise, let's be reminded that people live out their convictions and beliefs differently. Not everyone does it by making some public declaration.

    I guess the part that bothered me more was Dave's rant where he called Meryl an idiot "and totally unlikeable" regarding her answer for some USFSA fluff video was their current FD music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0LnZIU-WVs#t=01m50s. I mean it's like he was digging up every past example to prove his point that Meryl was an unreliable person.

    (Yes, I did go watch that part. Honestly his rant on Meryl was just plain cruel. It's one thing to question her answer at an interview, but calling her "unlikeable" and "an idiot," especially on something completely unrelated was uncalled for).
    Yes.... agreed. It would be fine if TSL is just a fan hobby with no pretensions for legitimacy. It seems that both Kirk and Lease are aiming for legitimate gigs as commentators on major networks. They might even think they're so "witty" and insightful that Icenetwork or whatever will feel compelled to give them their own show. They are deluded. It's a big sign that the USFA or whatever didn't give them press passes (or whatever that little drama was about), and they and/or their cronies posted a thread (which was closed) about how unfair it was. It's not surprising at all. They are not going to be mainstream and legitimate with the way they provoke, mock, and criticize skaters. They are obviously fake, hypocritical, and pretentious, smiling and nodding to guests' comments on their shows and then turning around to mock the same guests on another segment. Keep this up and there will not be any more willing guests.

    I'd pay good money to watch Chris, Simon, Nicky, and other interesting commentators to do a version of "This and That," but TSL is just amateurish crap.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    Why people still find these two remotely interesting baffles me.
    I have never found them remotedly interesting. At best background noise, and at worst nasty and vile. I occasionaly watch when they have someone I really really like on, but just to hear that person, certainly not to hear Dave and Jenny. I especialy love those like Debi Thomas who basically talk over them and do 95% of the talking for that show so I dont have to listen to Dave and Jenny much. Especialy since Debi Thomas and everything she had to say was simply captivating and worth 30 times more than anything Kirk and Dave would ever have to say.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I have never found them remotedly interesting. At best background noise, and at worst nasty and vile. I occasionaly watch when they have someone I really really like on, but just to hear that person, certainly not to hear Dave and Jenny. I especialy love those like Debi Thomas who basically talk over them and do 95% of the talking for that show so I dont have to listen to Dave and Jenny much. Especialy since Debi Thomas and everything she had to say was simply captivating and worth 30 times more than anything Kirk and Dave would ever have to say.
    What they are - attention whores and social rejects. They haven't amounted to anything in life and thus this is the only thing that makes them feel special.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    This. They need to read between the lines. Some skaters are more diplomatic than others. If they took Wagner's stance they would draw attention to that, if they said what Abbott said, they would come under fire. Instead of criticizing those who won't go to war, we should focus more on those who are brave enough like Wagner. D/W do not want to get involved and while words of support would be nice it is also their prerogative to choose not to get involved. Bottom line: I don't want somebody to speak up because they are pressured to or feel compelled; I want them to do it out of their own courage and genuinely coming from their own hearts.
    For once I totally agree with you!

  14. #29
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Dave is reacting emotionally, in pain, angry that this is happening because he is gay and is fearful for his friends and himself. Could not a law happen here? He is reacting negatively to those who will not speak up in front of a camera, while they are very close to gay skaters. He has his own blog. It apparently is no longer complimentary of those big name skaters who will not speak out.. Clearly he is hurt and afraid at this frightening Russian law and ramifications in other places.
    If what Meryl and Charlie said (or didn't say) bothered him so much, why didn't he approach them directly? I would have loved it if he reached out them for an interview and perhaps asked for clarification on what they said. They were so great in being sensitive to Mary Beth's discomfort in talking about her eating disorder, I find it odd they wouldn't provide the same courtesy with Meryl and Charlie.

    Also Max gave a non-answer as well. Why didn't they rail on him? Instead Dave said he was real because he said he wanted to skate to 50 Cent in that same music fluff video. (For the record, I don't have a problem with Max's answer to either question; just pointing out a double standard).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    What they are - attention whores and social rejects. They haven't amounted to anything in life and thus this is the only thing that makes them feel special.
    ITA, and while I would usually feel mean saying or even agreeing to that about someone, but in their case not as much since Dave Lease especialy has been incredibly nasty for years, making fun of and ridiculing many great athletes on his blog. Fumie Suguri was one of his favorite targets for years, he couldnt stop going on about someone who was simply doing what she loved to do, as silly as it might be at this point.

    Jenny Kirk ridiculing Cohen and her comeback at every turn was just about as bad. Especialy speaking of someone who kicked her butt everytime for many years (actually that was probably the root of the whole matter). Someone who never did better than 15th at Worlds writing in 5 seperate blog entries that 4 time World and Olympic medalist Sasha "could not handle pressure". Even better she said in one article that Sasha would be viewed as a dissapointment and failure once again if she somehow failed to win gold in Vancouver (while everyone with a brain knew even winning a bronze in Vancouver would be a miracle for Sasha by that point).

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