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Thread: The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

  1. #31
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    .... If I had a legitimate shot at winning OGM in Sochi, I'd avoid the summit like the plague. Why did they go? Was it mandatory?
    Athletes would be foolish to skip the media summit, whether it is mandatory or not (I do not know the answer).

    Overall, the media summit is a great opportunity for an athlete to promote her/his sport; to promote Team USA; and yes, to promote herself or himself.

    (If it is in fact mandatory, I would not consider it cruel and unusual punishment. Quite the contrary, for the reasons above. And if an athlete wants the privilege of representing the USA on the field of play -- and of receiving support from the USOC and its official sponsors -- I think the USOC has the right to expect her or him to serve as an ambassador.)

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    I just can NOT with some of you haters. BlackPack, your hatred of Dave and/or Jenny is just BLARING through.

    Someone you STILL can NOT separate the ability to be "Professional" when interviewing someone and the ability to give an opinion during an opinion piece. A reporters/interviewers job is to ask questions and get answers, NOT TO GIVE THEIR OPINIONS.

    I don't know HOW many times I'm going to have to say this until some of you can get it into your thick skulls: This is WHY there is a different tone between their "Journalistic" interviews, and their "Editorial" This and That. Some of you people are ALL OR NOTHING and it is so very maddening to me. You don't like their opinions, FINE, don't watch the This and That stuff. Don't watch ANY of their stuff. Bottomline, people are still doing interviews with them.

    Now, Mrs. P, can they come off as harsh? Sure, I can see where you get that. I don't agree, but I can see how it bristles some feathers. Honestly, I feel like they bring of level of realness to figure skating that is refreshing.

    So, now by all means, someone please post a stupid comment about how I'm really Dave in disguise (again). I find it so very hilariously telling on the people who post those things.

    EDIT: I also find it the HEIGHT of hypocrisy to be nasty and mean to these two on a board where you are semi-anonymous. At least these two have opinions they stand behind with their names. The cognitive dissonance would be hilarious if it wasn't sad.

  3. #33
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I've notice that the word "honest" is used in all sorts of odd ways these days. When someone makes some uncensored comment, it's referred to as "honesty," and when someone is reserved or (Heaven help us) repressed, that person is castigated for being "dishonest." Honesty involves ethical behavior. An honest person keeps his hands out of the till, accepts the blame when he makes a mistake, and doesn't spread lies about other people. People don't have to divulge full and complete opinions about every topic on cue in order to qualify as honest.


    I stopped reading and listening to TSL’s interviews for obvious reasons (no matter how interested I am in the interviewee).

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, vocally or quietly. Why should one be judged harshly just because one does not conform to the views or react in the same manner as some others? Do we all owe each other an explanation on our behavior and thoughts if these behavior and thoughts do no harm to anyone?

    It is sheer hypocrisy to judge others when it suits but not when it comes to self. Let us live by the old adage, don’t do onto others what you don’t want others to do unto you.


    Quote Originally Posted by brighphoton
    It is okay if Scott Hamilton, the Shibs, Meryl and Charlie, and Virtue and Moir, Evan Lysaceck, Gracie Gold, Agnes Z, and countless others at media summits turn a blind eye toward possible mistreatment of their fellow gay athletes at the Sochi Games.

    It is NOT okay if David Lease and Jenny Kirk express their negative opinion about that on their blog.
    Yes, TSL is entitled to their opinions. BUT … when they used their interview vehicles to put their guests in uncomfortable scenario, and paint them as deficient in character, it is unprofessional. These skaters are amateur athletes. They are not paid professionals and politicians. Most of them are supported by their parents and families in their training. Who would want to subject their daughters and sons to such bullying?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Athletes would be foolish to skip the media summit, whether it is mandatory or not (I do not know the answer).

    Overall, the media summit is a great opportunity for an athlete to promote her/his sport; to promote Team USA; and yes, to promote herself or himself.

    (If it is in fact mandatory, I would not consider it cruel and unusual punishment. Quite the contrary, for the reasons above. And if an athlete wants the privilege of representing the USA on the field of play -- and of receiving support from the USOC and its official sponsors -- I think the USOC has the right to expect her or him to serve as an ambassador.)
    Also I think this is a good time to point out that Phil Hersh was not particularly critical of Meryl and Charlie's answer, either in his news story on Twitter. He simply made the point that the reluctance of skaters to speak out made Ashley's declaration stand out even more:

    Such reluctance makes Wagner’s dignified and rational expressions of dismay seem even stronger.
    I've searched on Twitter to see if anyone has commented on Meryl and Charlie's statement and haven't found much beside people commenting on TSL's post. It seems the outrage, at last from what I can see, has been limited to the skating community.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Yes, TSL is entitled to their opinions. BUT … when they used their interview vehicles to put their guests in uncomfortable scenario, and paint them as deficient in character, it is unprofessional. These skaters are amateur athletes. They are not paid professionals and politicians. Most of them are supported by their parents and families in their training. Who would want to subject their daughters and sons to such bullying?
    I'm sorry, but asking tough questions is NOT unprofessional. Also, they've never cut anyone off if they've given a response they disagree with, and if you're referring to Scott Hamilton... he deserved it, that answer was terrible AND he has a history of these things. However, if you're talking about other questions, by all means, give me examples and I'll go rewatch and judge for myself.

  6. #36
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    I just can NOT with some of you haters. BlackPack, your hatred of Dave and/or Jenny is just BLARING through.

    Someone you STILL can NOT separate the ability to be "Professional" when interviewing someone and the ability to give an opinion during an opinion piece. A reporters/interviewers job is to ask questions and get answers, NOT TO GIVE THEIR OPINIONS.

    I don't know HOW many times I'm going to have to say this until some of you can get it into your thick skulls: This is WHY there is a different tone between their "Journalistic" interviews, and their "Editorial" This and That. Some of you people are ALL OR NOTHING and it is so very maddening to me. You don't like their opinions, FINE, don't watch the This and That stuff. Don't watch ANY of their stuff. Bottomline, people are still doing interviews with them.

    Now, Mrs. P, can they come off as harsh? Sure, I can see where you get that. I don't agree, but I can see how it bristles some feathers. Honestly, I feel like they bring of level of realness to figure skating that is refreshing.

    So, now by all means, someone please post a stupid comment about how I'm really Dave in disguise (again). I find it so very hilariously telling on the people who post those things.

    EDIT: I also find it the HEIGHT of hypocrisy to be nasty and mean to these two on a board where you are semi-anonymous. At least these two have opinions they stand behind with their names. The cognitive dissonance would be hilarious if it wasn't sad.
    Well, it is highly probable that Lease hides behind various nicks and posts random nonsense. He has years of history doing so. If anyone is going to be provocative or plain vindictive, then be prepared for backlash. Fair is fair.

    What is behind your blind loyalty to Lease and Kirk? If they can backstab esteemed guests, then they can do the same to their "friends" and supporters. You don't need to be nice to mean girls.

    OK, so how are they NOT attention whores and social rejects who don't amount to anything?

    As pangtongfan said, Kirk was constantly berating Cohen for crumbling under pressure when she herself couldn't beat Cohen. Lease's claim to fame is his Aunt Joyce blog which is a precursor to the bitchiness of TSL. They're making a career out of berating others, while they couldn't make one for themselves.

    This IS a semi-anonymous forum. No one is supposed to post his or her private details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Well, it is highly probable that Lease hides behind various nicks and posts random nonsense. He has years of history doing so. If anyone is going to be provocative or plain vindictive, then be prepared for backlash. Fair is fair.

    What is behind your blind loyalty to Lease and Kirk? If they can backstab esteemed guests, then they can do the same to their "friends" and supporters. You don't need to be nice to mean girls.

    OK, so how are they NOT attention whores and social rejects who don't amount to anything?

    As pangtongfan said, Kirk was constantly berating Cohen for crumbling under pressure when she herself couldn't beat Cohen. Lease's claim to fame is his Aunt Joyce blog which is a precursor to the bitchiness of TSL. They're making a career out of berating others, while they couldn't make one for themselves.

    This IS a semi-anonymous forum. No one is supposed to post his or her private details.
    The fact that you can't see that you are doing the same thing you accuse them of... or that you think it is ok, is telling.

    I'm sorry, but Cohen DID crumble under pressure. REPEATEDLY. The fact that she never won a world championship, and only ONE nationals, is telling.

    "Attention Whores and Social Rejects?" Really? They're putting out content online. It's the new wave of journalism, and they're doing it quite well for being a home-spun operation. Looking at Dave's personal Facebook, it seems like he's pretty good on friends. You're the one who is making personal attacks and hiding behind a screen name. I tweet regularly to them, on my real name, and post regularly on their Facebook, with my real name. I'm not hiding anything. Also, I'm pretty sure Dave has a job outside of the TSL stuff, so that "amounts to nothing" is, yet again, baseless drivel. Congrats.

    I don't have blind loyalty. I find their content enjoyable, and as such, I will defend it against people making personal attacks. You obviously have some prejudice for Dave based on the AJ blog. Maybe you should deal with and realize that before painting everything he's doing now with a broad brush. The fact that you can't find the nuance in their criticisms says more about you than them.

    The fact that most people on these boards don't understand that you can hold multiple opinions about people at the same time is: 1) Sad and 2) Telling.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    BUT … when they used their interview vehicles to put their guests in uncomfortable scenario, and paint them as deficient in character, it is unprofessional.

    When did this happen? Perhaps I missed those interviews?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    What they are - attention whores and social rejects. They haven't amounted to anything in life and thus this is the only thing that makes them feel special.
    Well isn't that the very definition of the pot calling the kettle black. But at least Mr Lease isn't doing it from behind the relative safety of a screen name.

  10. #40
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    I just can NOT with some of you haters. BlackPack, your hatred of Dave and/or Jenny is just BLARING through.

    Someone you STILL can NOT separate the ability to be "Professional" when interviewing someone and the ability to give an opinion during an opinion piece. A reporters/interviewers job is to ask questions and get answers, NOT TO GIVE THEIR OPINIONS.

    I don't know HOW many times I'm going to have to say this until some of you can get it into your thick skulls: This is WHY there is a different tone between their "Journalistic" interviews, and their "Editorial" This and That. Some of you people are ALL OR NOTHING and it is so very maddening to me. You don't like their opinions, FINE, don't watch the This and That stuff. Don't watch ANY of their stuff. Bottomline, people are still doing interviews with them.

    Now, Mrs. P, can they come off as harsh? Sure, I can see where you get that. I don't agree, but I can see how it bristles some feathers. Honestly, I feel like they bring of level of realness to figure skating that is refreshing.

    So, now by all means, someone please post a stupid comment about how I'm really Dave in disguise (again). I find it so very hilariously telling on the people who post those things.

    EDIT: I also find it the HEIGHT of hypocrisy to be nasty and mean to these two on a board where you are semi-anonymous. At least these two have opinions they stand behind with their names. The cognitive dissonance would be hilarious if it wasn't sad.
    Thank you zschultz. I'm trying to figure out WHAT THE HELL they said to provoke this hysteria. Yeah, they were tough on Meryl this week. Big deal, they love Meryl, but she did sound like an idiot. Next week they will love on her. I prefer this kind of commentary. It isn't biased, it's very opinionated for sure. But I'm tired of 'the rules' for narrators. If someone stinks, say it. It might make them change or tweak their programs. I think too many here grew up with helicopter moms who fought against any perceived slight against their precious ones. Many people grew up with constructive criticism, and guess what we earned degrees, masters, doctorates, made it to the top echelons of our fields or sports. Many of us want to hear it. The Shibs? I didn't even think they were harsh on them. In fact, I didn't really hear a harsh thing at all. And also, this was their op-ed so let them say what they want. I agreed with most of it. The level of vitriol to TSL is amusing. Just don't watch it if it makes your blood boil to hysteria. Problem solved. I will say that after a year and a half of IJS boredom and coma, that Jenny and Dave got me interested again in skating. So thank you Jenny and Dave, you are doing a great job.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    I'm sorry, but asking tough questions is NOT unprofessional. Also, they've never cut anyone off if they've given a response they disagree with, and if you're referring to Scott Hamilton... he deserved it, that answer was terrible AND he has a history of these things. However, if you're talking about other questions, by all means, give me examples and I'll go rewatch and judge for myself.
    Actually I thought they let Scott Hamilton off the hook. If it were me I would have absolutely asked Hamilton flat out, Did SOI refuse to hire Johnny Weir because he is an out homosexual?

  12. #42
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    There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. I just don't agree with the way they give it. What is wrong with expressing that opinion? I do think Dave's comments to Meryl were quite cruel.

    I suppose people wouldn't listen if Dave simply said. "Oh I thought Meryl's answer was contrived." Heck, when I first watched the video, that thought came across my mind when I saw the YouTube video.

    However, was it absolutely necessary for Dave to mock her? To call her unlikeable?

    For the record, I didn't really have a problem with what they said about the Shibs, and I'm a big Shibs fan. I think it was a bit much to declare their FD a "big mistake" when they have yet to debut the program, but other than that, I though the comments was fine.

    Finally, I have received my fair share of criticism in life. I was not raised by parents who were the helicopter type. My mother had no qualms to be honest when I was not living up to my potential. Is it necessary to bring people's upbringing into this?

  13. #43
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    The fact that you can't see that you are doing the same thing you accuse them of... or that you think it is ok, is telling.

    I'm sorry, but Cohen DID crumble under pressure. REPEATEDLY. The fact that she never won a world championship, and only ONE nationals, is telling.

    "Attention Whores and Social Rejects?" Really? They're putting out content online. It's the new wave of journalism, and they're doing it quite well for being a home-spun operation. Looking at Dave's personal Facebook, it seems like he's pretty good on friends. You're the one who is making personal attacks and hiding behind a screen name. I tweet regularly to them, on my real name, and post regularly on their Facebook, with my real name. I'm not hiding anything. Also, I'm pretty sure Dave has a job outside of the TSL stuff, so that "amounts to nothing" is, yet again, baseless drivel. Congrats.

    I don't have blind loyalty. I find their content enjoyable, and as such, I will defend it against people making personal attacks. You obviously have some prejudice for Dave based on the AJ blog. Maybe you should deal with and realize that before painting everything he's doing now with a broad brush. The fact that you can't find the nuance in their criticisms says more about you than them.

    The fact that most people on these boards don't understand that you can hold multiple opinions about people at the same time is: 1) Sad and 2) Telling.
    I was about to respond to that same post, and I basically was just going to repeat this. So 'ditto'.

    Also, anyone who personally attacks Dave has most likely never met him. He's one of the nicest guys you could know. He just has opinions, but believe me if he felt he was personally hurting someone he'd stop. It's just a difference in cultures I guess. On a scale of 1 to 10 for being a friend, Dave is at least a 9. Always there, compassionate. Just because he goes off on some Meryl idiocy doesn't make him evil. Meryl did sound like an idiot. And frankly I think her remarks and comments DID make her seem unlikeable. Next week with some training maybe she'll get on track to a more likeable persona. Oh well, it seems like the haterade for TSL is flowing hard today. Just stop the personal attacks. I don't know Jenny, but I do know Dave (though not well) and he is very funny and very kind and very compassionate.

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    Thank you zschultz. I'm trying to figure out WHAT THE HELL they said to provoke this hysteria. Yeah, they were tough on Meryl this week. Big deal, they love Meryl, but she did sound like an idiot.
    My hysteria comes from the fact that Dave went off on her, made fun of her voice, and called her an idiot because when asked what music she's always wanted to skate to, she answered that their FD music is the music she's always wanted to skate to. His immature little rant was because Meryl didn't give an answer that he approved.

    Just stop the personal attacks.
    Is calling someone an idiot not a personal attack in your world?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. I just don't agree with the way they give it. What is wrong with expressing that opinion? I do think Dave's comments to Meryl were quite cruel.

    I suppose people wouldn't listen if Dave simply said. "Oh I thought Meryl's answer was contrived." Heck, when I first watched the video, that thought came across my mind when I saw the YouTube video.

    However, was it absolutely necessary for Dave to mock her? To call her unlikeable?

    For the record, I didn't really have a problem with what they said about the Shibs, and I'm a big Shibs fan. I think it was a bit much to declare something a "big mistake" when they have yet to debut the program, but other than that, I though the comments was fine.

    Finally, I have received my fair share of criticism in life. I was not raised by parents who were the helicopter type. My mother had no qualms to be honest when I was not living up to my potential. I had to work at age 14.
    Your comments are fine, I didn't see you personally attacking them. I saw you giving your criticisms or their criticisms, which is completely fair game. Dave is/can be "over-the-top" which is something I can relate to, as I am the same way about things I have strong opinions about.

    However, I find some people in this thread who are doing the same things they say Dave/Jenny are doing... very sad people.

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