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Thread: The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

  1. #166
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    I'm Asian, but definitely too young to be Maia and Alex's mother.

    I'm a huge Shibutanis uber, but I'm not so blind to see their struggles and mistakes. That Peruvian short dance? A bad idea. I though their Geisha FD was gorgeous, but I can see how judges perceived it wasn't out of the box.

    I find it puzzling how people don't think that a comment that hints that these two used money/connections/whatever to get to the World team isn't a bit mean spirited, or worse, libelous. If it's helicopter mom of me to point that out, I guess that's what I have to live with.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I'm Asian, but definitely too young to be Maia and Alex's mother.

    I'm a huge Shibutanis uber, but I'm not so blind to see their struggles and mistakes. That Peruvian short dance? A bad idea. I though their Geisha FD was gorgeous, but I can see how judges perceived it wasn't out of the box.

    I find it puzzling how people don't think that a comment that hints that these two used money/connections/whatever to get to the World team isn't a bit mean spirited, or worse, libelous. If it's helicopter mom of me to point that out, I guess that's what I have to live with.
    I'm with you 100% on this one--I think it goes beyond mean spirited, and this has nothing to do with being a "helicopter mom"--it's just common decency.

  3. #168
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    I'm a big fan of TSL and I have big problems with that. It is indeed potentially libelous. It's one thing to point out, for instance, that Marlie's public personas try a little too hard to come across as all perfect! all the time! and that makes them less relatable than someone like Ashley Wagner who has a less "crafted" public persona, but it is another to throw around a serious allegation of that magnitude even in jest. My hope is that they learn from that. Again, it's a very new site and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

  4. #169
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    [QUOTE=LiamForeman;772071]
    Quote Originally Posted by LauraV View Post
    I'm not sure people are saying Dave is himself cruel and mean-spirited, it's his comments that have been occasionally cruel and mean-spirited. A distinction like the one Dave's defenders have been making re his comments about Meryl - he wasn't calling her an idiot, just saying that her comments were idiotic. If we are going to parse words carefully on one side, we have to do it on the other side of the question too, right? Fair is fair.

    QUOTE]

    We must have distinctively different definitions of cruel and mean-spirited. As far as I can tell, Dave and Jenny are in love with Merylie. Oops, they said something negative this week, they are so their greatest fans. Helicopter Moms should just step back. We know great skating. A helicopter mom or family is only going to make matters worse. I still like the Shibs, but their fans are making me question them now. --William

    You quoted me, but I don't really understand your point. Helicopter moms?

    Anyway - I do enjoy TSL despite my occasional qualms and I wish Dave and Jenny luck. I'm sure you do too, so let's leave it at that.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraV View Post
    I'm not sure people are saying Dave is himself cruel and mean-spirited, it's his comments that have been occasionally cruel and mean-spirited. A distinction like the one Dave's defenders have been making re his comments about Meryl - he wasn't calling her an idiot, just saying that her comments were idiotic.
    It's the same thing as saying she's an idiot. He said Meryl's comments are idiotic. Where did those comments come from? Meryl. Therefore, Dave is saying Meryl is an idiot.

    I see it for what it is. Dave has a very strong stance on the issue, and he's just throwing a hissy fit that someone didn't agree with his stance in a public forum. I think it's very babyish and unprofessional, and it's very clear why they didn't get a media pass.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    I'm a big fan of TSL and I have big problems with that. It is indeed potentially libelous. It's one thing to point out, for instance, that Marlie's public personas try a little too hard to come across as all perfect! all the time! and that makes them less relatable than someone like Ashley Wagner who has a less "crafted" public persona, but it is another to throw around a serious allegation of that magnitude even in jest.
    I don't think D/W are "crafted" at all which became apparent with Charlie's answer to the gay issue. Meryl is extremely well-spoken so people think it's not a "real" but "crafted" personality. I think she is just naturally smart and well-spoken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I don't think D/W are "crafted" at all which became apparent with Charlie's answer to the gay issue. Meryl is extremely well-spoken so people think it's not a "real" but "crafted" personality. I think she is just naturally smart and well-spoken.
    Greatness in others sometimes brings out the worst possible side in people. Envy and jealousy have provided the platform I think for their less than erudite remarks thus far. So that said, why are we giving them the attention they so desperately crave by prolonging this thread?...I am so excited for Skate America to begin!!

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    It's the same thing as saying she's an idiot. He said Meryl's comments are idiotic. Where did those comments come from? Meryl. Therefore, Dave is saying Meryl is an idiot.

    I see it for what it is. Dave has a very strong stance on the issue, and he's just throwing a hissy fit that someone didn't agree with his stance in a public forum. I think it's very babyish and unprofessional, and it's very clear why they didn't get a media pass.
    The "idiot" thing reminds me of a quote from Alfred Hitchcock. "I never said that actors were cattle. I said that they should be treated like cattle." Mean is mean, and a few adverbs and prepositions don't change the sting of the statement.

  9. #174
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    It perplexes me how fans grow hysterical about anything that might potentially hurt their favorite skaters' feelings, while in reality said skaters probably never revealed their "true feelings" to ordinary fans to begin with. Quite a conundrum I'll say. It'll be one thing if a skate mom comes onboard to yell at any of her daughter's naysayers, which I can totally understand, quite another when a fan does that. I don't think it's very healthy for a fan to get too attached to the skaters' imaginary feelings, unless of course maybe some of you are close to them, then, I guess let off your steam toward David and Jenny all you want.

    David Lease is a very opinionated person who is ambitious and knows exactly how to push people's buttons. From where I stand his method is very much working. I'm sure their end goal is to monetize their visit counter, not to make all their readers, or even skaters happy.

  10. #175
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    No offense, but one of my buttons is when someone hints that I am "hysterical." It's a woman thing, I guess. For years, the prevailing opinion was that we didn't get angry, we got shrill or hysterical. As a result, neither of those words are pleasant to my ears. I have expressed dislike for this man's form of editorializing and will continue to do so, and I don't think that's out of place.

    Between Lease, Madonna, and Miley Cyrus, I'm tired of ambitious people who attain fame by "pushing people's buttons." If they can attempt to use me as part of their business plan, I can say what I like about them. I call it forthright, not hysterical. I would feel this way whether I were a particular fan of the skater being mentioned or not, and I suspect that would be true of many of the other posters here.

  11. #176
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    GS does not approve of people doing psychiatric evaulations over the internet. In fact, it is a GS guideline that will get you a warning, and if blatant enough, an infraction. Hysteria is a medical condition; worse it is one with a particularly heinous past in the 19th century incarnation of "female hysteria."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480686/

  12. #177
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    They are entitled to their opinions and impressions, just as anyone is.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    No offense, but one of my buttons is when someone hints that I am "hysterical." It's a woman thing, I guess. For years, the prevailing opinion was that we didn't get angry, we got shrill or hysterical. As a result, neither of those words are pleasant to my ears. I have expressed dislike for this man's form of editorializing and will continue to do so, and I don't think that's out of place.

    Between Lease, Madonna, and Miley Cyrus, I'm tired of ambitious people who attain fame by "pushing people's buttons." If they can attempt to use me as part of their business plan, I can say what I like about them. I call it forthright, not hysterical. I would feel this way whether I were a particular fan of the skater being mentioned or not, and I suspect that would be true of many of the other posters here.
    Thank you Olympia for that eloquent reply.

    I think many posters, including myself, have tried to provide thoughtful criticisms regarding TSL and have not shown any hysteria regarding their opinions, just questioning the approach.

    I happen to be a fan of the Shibs and D/W but my concern/criticism would be the same regardless of the skater or pair.

  14. #179
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    You guys are all so wrong on the Shibs issue, it makes me want to cry. The Shibs DID NOT BRIBE their way onto the team - when Dave says a lot of money has been invested in them, it means that the USFSA invested money in them, not their parents bribing their way onto the team. Get your facts straight before you bash the wonderful Jenny and Dave.

  15. #180
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    I will say that TSL has put out some compelling content as of late, including some archival interviews of various skating insiders:

    We are thrilled to introduce a new series to TSL, “The Lost Skating Interviews,” conducted by David Barba and James Pellerito. Barba & Pellerito produced, directed, filmed and edited POP STAR ON ICE, a feature documentary about 2-time Olympian Johnny Weir, which had a theatrical release in New York City at the IFC Center and aired on Sundance Channel in the US and various networks internationally. They executive produced two seasons of BE GOOD JOHNNY WEIR for Sundance Channel and LOGO and are currently in post-production on two feature documentaries slated for release in 2014.
    The series of lost interviews presented here were filmed between the summer of 2005 and the spring of 2006. These interviews were intended to be part of a larger project addressing the new judging system in relation to other major changes in the sport like the creation of the short program and the elimination of the figures. Though huge budgetary obstacles made it impossible for the project to continue, Barba and Pellerito are thrilled to be able to finally share these interviews with a wider audience.
    GS won't let me link, you can find it, I hope!

    For me, this is the kind of stuff that makes the site valuable to me. Content that you can't find anywhere else. I probably will refrain from watching their This or That sessions, but these interviews (both in-house and archival) are gems.

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