The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people | Golden Skate

The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

Celine

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Jenny Kirk and Dave Lease of The Skating Lesson have definitely made an indelible mark for themselves this season.

Some of their interviews have been really interesting and fun. When guests like Frank Carroll and Sandra Bezic did the talking, I became a fan. Now that the season is actually under way however they seem to be very focused on bringing attention to their own views on certain issues and are attacking certain skaters on the basis of issues that more to do with who these skaters are as people than their actual skating.

In the October 6th This and That, they take aim at Maia Shibutani, Alex Shibutani and Meryl Davis in a way that is really, well, no other word for it, but ugly.

Jenny and Dave have always made it clear they dislike and disrespect the Shibutani's. From posted comments people actually perceive that the correct term is "hate." Jenny and Dave can dislike their skating if that is their opinion. What they do though is focus on attacking their character and who they are as people. They find them childish and "12 years old", insinuate that they are dishonest people. Without seeing them skate yet they conclude that their approach to the season is "one giant mistake."

The Skating Lesson obviously prefers other ice dance teams. They are entitled to have their preferences and opinions, no question about it. The repeated attacks on the Shibutanis however are very much about who they are as people.

What is really equally strange to me is that Jenny and Dave have done a 180 on Meryl. They used to put Meryl Davis on a pedestal, like she could do no wrong. Their admiration was almost on par with their fandom for the Michele. But especially because Meryl and Charlie did not express views about the Russian anti-Gay laws that were aligned with their personal views, they rant on about how "idiotic" they are. Idiotic. Really? Meryl is inappropriately too wrapped up in her quest for a Gold medal.

TSL can think whatever they want and share their views with whomever they want about their programs and skating. Nobody including myself is forced to watch or listen. But as hard working young people who are in my opinion very decent and honest ambassadors for their sport, I don't think Maia, Alex and Meryl deserve this kind of treatment. Just my opinion.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Eh, I find it best just not to watch. I've already shared my piece regarding my disagreements with TSL so I won't repeat it here.

The best thing to do is to support the Shibutanis by watching their videos over and over. I'm hoping they're YouTube content partners so they get a portion of the ad revenue. :biggrin:
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
You can always tell when someone does not like someone's skating and personality. They attack something other than the skating or music or choreography. I find it disturbing that Jenny Kirk goes on and on saying "it's about the honesty!"

Honestly, why would you pick on Maia, Alex and Meryl. From everything I've ever seen of them all 3 of them seem like some of the most intelligent, decent, positive people in the sport.

Mrs. P what are you disagreements with TSL? They crossed (another) line her, don't you think?
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Your perceptions are incredibly wrong. I guess you don't understand sarcasm, witty banter, or truthful concern? They don't dislike any of these people you have named and if they did, so what? It's an OPINION, shared forthrightly and for a very real purpose.

It's clear that too many members of the human population still can't handle dealing with uncomfortable truths or thoughtful analysis. Better to just look at the surface of everything and/or ignore problems, right? Such a backward mentality.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I've notice that the word "honest" is used in all sorts of odd ways these days. When someone makes some uncensored comment, it's referred to as "honesty," and when someone is reserved or (Heaven help us) repressed, that person is castigated for being "dishonest." Honesty involves ethical behavior. An honest person keeps his hands out of the till, accepts the blame when he makes a mistake, and doesn't spread lies about other people. People don't have to divulge full and complete opinions about every topic on cue in order to qualify as honest.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ That's a great point. :yes: When Meryl and Charlie say, "We haven't talked much about it," that is a polite way of saying, "We're not going to tell you what we talk about."
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
I don't know about these interviews. Aunt Joyce is entertaining. Jenny is a breath of fresh air in a sport that had Peggy whose grammar is lousy as chief commentator for decades. She never said anything the least bit interesting and hated Tara for her confidence.
A seldom honest comment made that clear as she adored MK. Fauning. I like that these people speak thir minds to a point. They are hardly outrageous. Hardly groundbreaking.

There is a thread in politics about Putin. But given how many gay men in the sport refuse to speak up...it shows how scared people are to be themselves. If one is a gay skater and refuses to speak up for oneself, can you expect others to champion you?

I respect an Ashley Wagner more than say ??? people who allow bashing of people for being what they were born to be. At what price an Olympic medal?
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
As an adult, I've never felt that I needed celebrity endorsements to validate my own views on any subject.

My support/nonsupport of gun control does not rely on what Charlton Heston has to say.

My support/nonsupport of the environmental movement is not a decision held in reserve until I hear from Barbara Streisand.

And I don't need Ashley Wagner, or the Shibs, or Meryl Davis to clear things up for me on gay rights.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
When Meryl and Charlie say, "We haven't talked much about it," that is a polite way of saying, "We're not going to tell you what we talk about."

Then don't go to a media summit. It wasn't a personal question, it's about a relevant World issue. Meryl&Charlie's Olympic teammates can be put in prison in Russia, if they are seen "doing something gay". How do they feel about that? Give a real answer or don't attend to begin with.
 

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Your perceptions are incredibly wrong. I guess you don't understand sarcasm, witty banter, or truthful concern? They don't dislike any of these people you have named and if they did, so what? It's an OPINION, shared forthrightly and for a very real purpose.

It's clear that too many members of the human population still can't handle dealing with uncomfortable truths or thoughtful analysis. Better to just look at the surface of everything and/or ignore problems, right? Such a backward mentality.

+1. Anyone who has consistently watched TSL knows that Dave & Jenny have been complimentary toward the Shibs and hugely supportive/superfans of D&W. They've made me invested in skating again because they're making these skaters into personalities again, which is something the sport has so lacked.
And commenting on the Shibs music choice or comments that D&W made at the freaking Media Summit is all fair game. I love that they own their opinions.

And I say this as a huge Meryl Davis fan.
 

Matt K

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Dave and Jenny (TSL) have repeatedly, to quote the original poster's words, "hated on" Virtue/Moir last season, and worse too by insinuating lies to perpetuate further rumours/lies like Tessa faked her leg cramp, etc...Only that time, most D/W ubers loved it and ran with it to smear V/M any chance they could (read the archives of this forum). Now, he is stating his negative opinion on D/W and it's all of a sudden not OK (to the point that it needs it own thread?).
 

all that

Final Flight
Joined
May 4, 2007
Dave and Jenny (TSL) have repeatedly, to quote the original poster's words, "hated on" Virtue/Moir last season, and worse too by insinuating lies to perpetuate further rumours/lies like Tessa faked her leg cramp, etc...Only that time, most D/W ubers loved it and ran with it to smear V/M any chance they could (read the archives of this forum). Now, he is stating his negative opinion on D/W and it's all of a sudden not OK (to the point that it needs it own thread?).

Indeed. It's sad that it takes comments about D/W to wake people up to how vile TSL is.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Let me get this straight, I want to make sure I have your argument right.

It is okay if Scott Hamilton, the Shibs, Meryl and Charlie, and Virtue and Moir, Evan Lysaceck, Gracie Gold, Agnes Z, and countless others at media summits turn a blind eye toward possible mistreatment of their fellow gay athletes at the Sochi Games.

It is NOT okay if David Lease and Jenny Kirk express their negative opinion about that on their blog.

k.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Then don't go to a media summit. It wasn't a personal question, it's about a relevant World issue. Meryl&Charlie's Olympic teammates can be put in prison in Russia, if they are seen "doing something gay". How do they feel about that? Give a real answer or don't attend to begin with.

That I agree with. If I had a legitimate shot at winning OGM in Sochi, I'd avoid the summit like the plague. Why did they go? Was it mandatory?
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Let me get this straight, I want to make sure I have your argument right.

It is okay if Scott Hamilton, the Shibs, Meryl and Charlie, and Virtue and Moir, Evan Lysaceck, Gracie Gold, Agnes Z, and countless others at media summits turn a blind eye toward possible mistreatment of their fellow gay athletes at the Sochi Games.

It is NOT okay if David Lease and Jenny Kirk express their negative opinion about that on their blog.

k.

What's the alternative? Martyrdom? If that's your thing, it's your thing, but don't expect others to play along.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
^ That's a great point. :yes: When Meryl and Charlie say, "We haven't talked much about it," that is a polite way of saying, "We're not going to tell you what we talk about."

This. They need to read between the lines. Some skaters are more diplomatic than others. If they took Wagner's stance they would draw attention to that, if they said what Abbott said, they would come under fire. Instead of criticizing those who won't go to war, we should focus more on those who are brave enough like Wagner. D/W do not want to get involved and while words of support would be nice it is also their prerogative to choose not to get involved. Bottom line: I don't want somebody to speak up because they are pressured to or feel compelled; I want them to do it out of their own courage and genuinely coming from their own hearts.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
The alternative is to acknowledge that D&J have their own blog and that they are bringing up a completely legitimate issue.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
What's the alternative? Martyrdom? If that's your thing, it's your thing, but don't expect others to play along.

Conversely, don't expect every one else to pick up a stone to toss at TSL.

Frankly, the "gay propaganda" issue is turning out to be one of THE major pre-stories of Sochi. I wouldn't trust a reporter's ability if he or she did NOT ask the skaters their opinion on the subject. Of course the skaters have a perfect right to evade answering the question, but shouldn't be surprised that a non-answer is, in this case, newsworthy as well. Geez!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Conversely, don't expect every one else to pick up a stone to toss at TSL.

Frankly, the "gay propaganda" issue is turning out to be one of THE major pre-stories of Sochi. I wouldn't trust a reporter's ability if he or she did NOT ask the skaters their opinion on the subject. Of course the skaters have a perfect right to evade answering the question, but shouldn't be surprised that a non-answer is, in this case, newsworthy as well. Geez!

And we should speak out about it, as we have been doing. But we're not the ones going to Russia. Also, I'm not sure that in this case, and with that wording, David Lease is acting as a reporter or as a concerned civilian.
 
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