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Thread: The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

  1. #136
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    I think some of what TSL discusses/asks is inapprorpiate IF they are trying to be "real" journalists.

  2. #137
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I apologize. There. But I think you are being entirely way too personal with your attacks on someone you do not even know. So maybe we should all have a collective apology session. Jenny and Dave are working hard to make skating interesting and relevant again. As the old saying goes don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution. I hadn't thought about skating in over a year, and was tired of the mean girlish crap on FSU. Be a part of the solution and stop your Bitter Betty posts. So yes, I apologize. I have far too much going on in my life to reduce myself to that level. Truce?
    Not everyone has the resources or desire to start their own podcast. If they did, we would have a whole lot more of them.

    As I said, my criticisms of TSL doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge how much time/effort they put into it. But so do many others. I noted Manleywoman already, but there's also the Skate Guard blog (http://skateguard1.blogspot.com), who has also had wonderful interviews with key figures in the skating community.

    In the mainstream media, we think of Phil Hersh as being the sole person covering skating, but that isn't true either. Kelly Whiteside of USA Today has done some great work as did Nancy Armour of the Associated Press.

    (OT: You guys ought to read Whiteside's piece in yesterday's USA Today piece regarding racism U.S. gymnist Simone Biles experienced at Worlds Championships last week. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...mpion/2952905/)

    Certainly TSL, for better or worse, stands out because of its delivery and clearly its style has resonated with many fans. However, that doesn't excuse them from what valid concerns/criticisms people have about it.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Like when they were wondering how Miki Ando would be able to do a spiral with lactating breasts?

    And when they said Adam Rippon wanted a DNA test?

    And Jason Brown impregnated her with his pony tail?

    Or when they wondered if the baby had slicked back Russian hair?
    The foamsprings on Youtube!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It's called humor.
    Is this kind of "humor" a part of real journalism?

  4. #139
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    But this is what irks me. Why should they be 'real' journalists?? And what does that mean anyway? To spout bs and lies on Fox News every night with a polite smile? They have a freaking WEBCAST!! They aren't CNN. And the fact that they have interviewed many of the major players shows that they are on the right track and putting out a quality product. You don't like? Then don't watch. But stop with the haterade. I hate Monty Python flims, have never laughed once, and want to implode when I have to sit through one. You know what I don't do? Go on the internet and complain and deride Monty Python and his fans. Just go away. Dave is one of the nicest men you could ever know. He doesn't float your boat? Then move on, but don't attack him. It really is that simple. And as for the comments he made about Miki, Rippon, Jason et al, it's called A SENSE OF HUMOR. You don't share that same sense of humor, like I don't with Monty Python. But stop your Nastie Nellie posts. You bring out the ugly in others when we don't want to go there. Thanks.

  5. #140
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Is this kind of "humor" a part of real journalism?
    Yes, it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedic_journalism

  6. #141
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    But this is what irks me. Why should they be 'real' journalists?? And what does that mean anyway? To spout bs and lies on Fox News every night with a polite smile? They have a freaking WEBCAST!! They aren't CNN. And the fact that they have interviewed many of the major players shows that they are on the right track and putting out a quality product. You don't like? Then don't watch. But stop with the haterade. I hate Monty Python flims, have never laughed once, and want to implode when I have to sit through one. You know what I don't do? Go on the internet and complain and deride Monty Python and his fans. Just go away. Dave is one of the nicest men you could ever know. He doesn't float your boat? Then move on, but don't attack him. It really is that simple. And as for the comments he made about Miki, Rippon, Jason et al, it's called A SENSE OF HUMOR. You don't share that same sense of humor, like I don't with Monty Python. But stop your Nastie Nellie posts. You bring out the ugly in others when we don't want to go there. Thanks.
    It's not haterade to provide constructive criticism. Why is it okay for Dave and Jenny to make remarks about skaters, some that are borderline cruel and mean spirited, because "it's their opinion," but it's mean and nasty for people to state their opinion on the podcast?

    For the records, the comments RE: Miki, Jason et al, isn't what I'm criticizing. I'm criticizing the fact that they make baseless claims about skaters or the fact they're trying to play moral high-horse with hard-working people. Don't like Meryl and Charlie's response to the law in Russia? Fine. But you don't need to mock them to make your point.

    As for whether they want to be real journalists or not, that's up to them. But then they shouldn't start whining when they can't get press passes.

    Guess what there are a lot of great new media outlets that can't get media credentials. The SCOTUS Blog (http://www.scotusblog.com/) has become the top go-to resource regarding the Supreme Court, yet they can't get any press credentials from the Surpeme Court (http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnology...for_SCOTUSblog). But you don't see them whining about it-- in fact they build partnerships with other media outlets to get the information they need and then defy the Supreme Court by doing dome awesome reporting and analysis.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Thank you for your defense. It absolutely wasn't a lie. The evidence is available. They did say it, hopefully in jest. However, it speaks to the comment that "This and That" wasn't "tabloid trash."

    I cited that conversation as evidence that they're not serious journalists, and I continue to believe they are not. "This and That" definitely is in the same vein as a tabloid.

    It is a pity, because I've enjoyed several of their interviews. They are ratcheted down to a civilized and respectful tone, and I've learned things from their guests.

    I live in New York City, where we have two major daily tabloids: The Daily News and The New York Post. And, in general, they do much better reporting on sporting news than "the newspaper of record" with a global reputation--The New York Times. Things aren't always "x always is bad." But this thread does seem to bring out the black and white responses.

    My take is that This & That is still very very new. Frankly, I really enjoy it and look forward to seeing it every week, the same way that I read the Daily News AND the NYT (I won't even read The Post for free--I do have some standards!). If you don't that's your opinion. But reading some of these comments, I am expecting a crowd with pitchforks and blazing torches to storm the site any day now. Given that the site continues to grow (it may be slow growth, but growth after all is growth), it obviously does have an audience. And I don't expect that audience to stop watching in the near future.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    When I was in China talking to this wannabe Italian journalist, she went to Xinjiang. She bragged about asking the Xinjiang locals about the censorship by the Beijing government. She thought she was being very subversive and clever. I disagreed with what she did. If she were really interested in the locals' lives, she could ask them indirectly and obliquely about other matters to infer what was going on without putting anyone in a difficult position. Instead, she asked questions that could jeopardize anyone who talked to her. All this for a bit of journalistic glory. It was selfish and had little to do with educating the world about the Uighurs.

    This is the same thing with the gay issue in Russia. No, athletes, journalists, gay people, etc. shouldn't be put in a tough spot just so some activists and "journalists" can feel their cause is validated. No one owes you anything, especially if it endangers their chances to win OGM and their physical safety.
    Very reasonable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    What you have refered to as "humor" was a humor that probably has not yet reached the D level journalism. Then again, different strokes for different folks. Enjoy it all you like. Dave and Jenny should have been content for where they are now, and don't complain about not given access to the skating competitions.

  9. #144
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    I live in New York City, where we have two major daily tabloids: The Daily News and The New York Post. And, in general, they do much better reporting on sporting news than "the newspaper of record" with a global reputation--The New York Times. Things aren't always "x always is bad." But this thread does seem to bring out the black and white responses.

    My take is that This & That is still very very new. Frankly, I really enjoy it and look forward to seeing it every week, the same way that I read the Daily News AND the NYT (I won't even read The Post for free--I do have some standards!). If you don't that's your opinion. But reading some of these comments, I am expecting a crowd with pitchforks and blazing torches to storm the site any day now. Given that the site continues to grow (it may be slow growth, but growth after all is growth), it obviously does have an audience. And I don't expect that audience to stop watching in the near future.
    I don't think it's black and white. If I'm focusing on the criticism, it's because that's what we're talking about now. Just to clarify:

    1.) I don't think it's right to attack Jenny or Dave personally. I don't think they're bad or terrible people. My disagreement is with content not the people.
    2.) They do bring some good stuff to the table. The interviews are excellent and I think Jenny, in particular, is good at getting the discussion going and has a nice rapport. Dave tends to get a bit fan boy-ish, but I can see the amount of research he puts in.
    3.) When they are strictly analytical, they are fine there too. For me, their analysis of Worlds was quite good and I enjoyed it thoroughly.
    4.) Just because I criticize them doesn't mean I think they should go away. FWIW, they clearly have their fans and as I said, I think they do bring something to the table. And quite frankly I'm all for variety as far as coverage of anything be it figure skating, the Supreme Court or neighborhood news.

    What I don't like is:

    1.) Baseless and borderline libelous claims.
    2.) Comments that edge on being mean-spirited. As I've stated several times, I think they can be pointed in their criticism of skaters without resorting to mean spirited comments. As I said, I felt the comments with Meryl were quite personal rather than just a commentary on what she said.
    3.) Lots of speculative comments, i.e. with the whole Gracie Gold coaching situation. If they had a solid source that Gracie was changing coaches, they should have just went ahead and said it outright instead of all this dangling on social media.

    I'm not a pitchforks kind of girl, so I won't be participating in any witch hunts. But I hope they are mindful of the criticisms they receive and use it make the podcast even better.

  10. #145
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    It's not haterade to provide constructive criticism. Why is it okay for Dave and Jenny to make remarks about skaters, some that are borderline cruel and mean spirited, because "it's their opinion," but it's mean and nasty for people to state their opinion on the podcast?
    .
    I guess we have to agree to disagree that your definition of "cruel" is one hell of a lot different than mine. I've known "cruel" people in my lifetime, and Dave Lease is a lamb compared to them. It's okay if you don't get the sense of humor, it happens, I like to think I am 'hip' and 'now' with my friends' kids though I have no idea why they like the things they do. I go along to get along. I don't stand there and complain and criticize. I just don't 'get it'. Cruel and mean-spirited? It shows how different people can absorb a situation. I would not engage with cruel and mean-spirited people. I'm sorry you think these two are that. So if you just don't 'get' Jenny and Dave, don't watch. Spare yourself the pain. But stop posting negative things about them. It shows how dark your heart is.

  11. #146
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I guess we have to agree to disagree that your definition of "cruel" is one hell of a lot different than mine. I've known "cruel" people in my lifetime, and Dave Lease is a lamb compared to them. It's okay if you don't get the sense of humor, it happens, I like to think I am 'hip' and 'now' with my friends' kids though I have no idea why they like the things they do. I go along to get along. I don't stand there and complain and criticize. I just don't 'get it'. So if you just don't 'get' Jenny and Dave, don't watch. Spare yourself the pain. But stop posting negative things about them. It shows how dark your heart is.
    1.) Please see the post above yours that I just posted.

    2.) You are stating that I'm being cruel, but yet you think it's OK to question/attack my character when you have never met me. That's seems fair.

    3.) I have tried to be rational regarding my criticisms and I have made a point of not attacking Jenny and Dave personally. I never said Dave himself is cruel, I said his comments can be cruel. There's a difference. In fact, I have posted several posts of what I like about TSL as well, but I guess you haven't bothered to look at those.

  12. #147
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    It shows how dark your heart is.
    That is the most foolish thing I have read on this thread.

  13. #148
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That is the most foolish thing I have read on this thread.
    TSL apologists have a lot to learn...

  14. #149
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    This thread is so colorful! I don't see darkness anywhere.

  15. #150
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    I did like your post right above mine. Very nice.
    And I am not personally attacking you, that's silly on an anon website, I am just venting about all the haterade that Dave and Jenny are getting. I actually like reading your posts. It's nothing personal. And I do enjoy your posts.

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