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Thread: The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

  1. #91
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    [QUOTE=zschultz1986;771517]Scrufflet brought up Uncle Dick earlier and it's totally a legitimate point: Uncle Dick was WAY harsh back in the day, and gave HARSH critiques. It's in that vein. Yet people never question Dick Button's legitimacy to give that, and they LOVE to pounce on everything Dave says.

    (QUOTE]

    Are you really trying to equate Kirk & Lease in the same vein as two-time Olympic champion Dick Button? You surely must be joking. Besides Button only critiques the "skating" at least in public.

  2. #92
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I don't know about these interviews. Aunt Joyce is entertaining. Jenny is a breath of fresh air in a sport that had Peggy whose grammar is lousy as chief commentator for decades. She never said anything the least bit interesting and hated Tara for her confidence.
    A seldom honest comment made that clear as she adored MK. Fauning. I like that these people speak thir minds to a point. They are hardly outrageous. Hardly groundbreaking.

    There is a thread in politics about Putin. But given how many gay men in the sport refuse to speak up...it shows how scared people are to be themselves. If one is a gay skater and refuses to speak up for oneself, can you expect others to champion you?

    I respect an Ashley Wagner more than say ??? people who allow bashing of people for being what they were born to be. At what price an Olympic medal?
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    One thing you can say for Dave and Jenny--you'll never be bored. But people tend to forget just how acerbic dear Uncle Dick Button could be. If I remember correctly, he once compared Surya Bonaly's free leg in a spin to a sausage. Lord knows the weeks of vitriolic hysteria that comment would provoke on skating boards if it were made now. And the thing is, Uncle Dick was right (but then he usually was).
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As for Alex and Maia Shibutani, in the October 6th This and That piece the criticism was mainly in comparison with Chock and Bates. Jenny "couldn't take her eyes off Madison Chock" (neither could I ). In contrast, the Shibutani's have not been able to shed their cute brother and sister vibe, and choosing to go with Michael Jackson in their quest for an Olympic medal is "a big mistake." I agree, they need a theme with more substance.
    Yup. I honestly think the brother/sister team thing puts an inherent ceiling into their program/presentation choices despite all their technical talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Dave is reacting emotionally, in pain, angry that this is happening because he is gay and is fearful for his friends and himself. Could not a law happen here? He is reacting negatively to those who will not speak up in front of a camera, while they are very close to gay skaters. He has his own blog. It apparently is no longer complimentary of those big name skaters who will not speak out.. Clearly he is hurt and afraid at this frightening Russian law and ramifications in other places.
    Your post highlights his position (and the others who care) into a much clearer context with real consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Jenny Kirk ridiculing Cohen and her comeback at every turn was just about as bad. Especialy speaking of someone who kicked her butt everytime for many years (actually that was probably the root of the whole matter). Someone who never did better than 15th at Worlds writing in 5 seperate blog entries that 4 time World and Olympic medalist Sasha "could not handle pressure". Even better she said in one article that Sasha would be viewed as a dissapointment and failure once again if she somehow failed to win gold in Vancouver (while everyone with a brain knew even winning a bronze in Vancouver would be a miracle for Sasha by that point).
    I remember this, and as a fan of Cohen I recall roasting Kirk on these forums. Yes, it did seem to me at the time that she had a personal chip on her shoulder against Cohen. And...I've gotten over it and changed my mind about Kirk regarding this blog/project because 1) everyone grows, and I think she's grown past that, and 2) it doesn't change the fact that I think she is now doing what I think is a good, honest job.

  3. #93
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    I personally love what TSL has done so far. However, Dave sometimes goes a bit beyond my taste. I watch this like I watch everything else. I keep an open mind. I only hope they read this forum and take the criticism to improve their blog. It would be a shame to see it end.

  4. #94
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    I appreciate their viewpoints, even if I don't usually agree with them. Probably the best thing about them is that they give a lot of the insiders that they interview a big block of time to discuss details about their role in the skating community.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post
    I personally love what TSL has done so far. However, Dave sometimes goes a bit beyond my taste. I watch this like I watch everything else. I keep an open mind. I only hope they read this forum and take the criticism to improve their blog. It would be a shame to see it end.
    No, no, no, really, it would not be a shame. Their 15 minutes of infamy, has gone on way too long. On too many occasions I've seen them sprout innuendo and personal opinion as fact. I have no respect/tolerance for that. People work too hard for reckless people to do that. There are way too many tabloid rags around. It's time for some real integrity where the coverage of the sport is concerned.

    Their timely demise would just clear the way for a better product to come to the fore. No I repeat it would not be a shame if they were no more but a welcome relief. They can't be allowed to continue as is. No. Now can we talk about figure skating?

  6. #96
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    Now can we talk about figure skating?
    We already are talking about it. As is TSL...more than any other outlet in North America or Europe (that I know of).

    Take their opinions as you will. Regardless of whether you agree or not, everything they say has a point. It's not empty "tabloid rag" banter.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    Olympia... I just wanted to say - you're wonderful.
    Ditto to this!!!!

  8. #98
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=KKonas;771547]
    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    Scrufflet brought up Uncle Dick earlier and it's totally a legitimate point: Uncle Dick was WAY harsh back in the day, and gave HARSH critiques. It's in that vein. Yet people never question Dick Button's legitimacy to give that, and they LOVE to pounce on everything Dave says.

    (QUOTE]

    Are you really trying to equate Kirk & Lease in the same vein as two-time Olympic champion Dick Button? You surely must be joking. Besides Button only critiques the "skating" at least in public.
    Yeppers. Just wait til you see an interview with Jenny, Dave, and Dick. That is magic. Even with Frank it approached magic, but get Dick on it, it will be historical. Get over ur hate, grl.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    Scrufflet brought up Uncle Dick earlier and it's totally a legitimate point: Uncle Dick was WAY harsh back in the day, and gave HARSH critiques. It's in that vein. Yet people never question Dick Button's legitimacy to give that, and they LOVE to pounce on everything Dave
    Are you really trying to equate Kirk & Lease in the same vein as two-time Olympic champion Dick Button? You surely must be joking. Besides Button only critiques the "skating" at least in public.
    Button would say so and so's boots are so ugly why is she wearing them! Costume is part of the whole package but he could see a whole performance and say boots were ugly at the end.

  10. #100
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    AFAIR, I think it was Dirty Boots that got Uncle Dickie's goat. They annoyed him because all that's between you and clean boots is a little elbow grease and polish.

  11. #101
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    Kind of late to the thread, but I enjoy the TSL for what it is -- they certainly aren't pretending to be an unbiased (if such a thing is even possible in a sport that involves so much subjectivity) news source. I enjoy the tone of the show. I don't think it's mean-spirited, but it can be a little sarcastic and gossipy and reminds me of discussing the sport with friends and exclaiming over bad costumes or music and gushing over your favorite skaters, and so forth. Granted I haven't had a chance to watch the episode in question, but I watched the one they recorded on the same day, and they talked about Davis/White (and Virtue/Moir) and they seemed as complimentary of both teams as ever, and I pretty much agreed with their criticisms of the programs and analysis of the differences between the teams. Sometimes they do get down on them for specific things that probably seem unfair to super fans, and maybe are even unfair. I don't agree with them about everything. But I can't say that it's affected my enjoyment of their content as a whole, at least not yet!

  12. #102
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    They are two people with an opinion and I'm grateful for them. There is no other weekly recap/discussion regarding skating anywhere else out there so to be able to listen to a discussion rather than read one on a forum, which is the only place I can discuss skating since no one else I know actually watches it, is a welcome treat.

    I agree with them praising Ashley for voicing her opinion on the anti-gay law matter. Everyone who deflected is probably scared of whatever possible ramifications there could be for speaking their mind which is, IMO, ****** up. Everyone has an opinion on the anti-gay law: you're either for it, against it, or indifferent to it...but you do have some kind of original thought in your brain. Meryl and Charlie saying that hadn't discussed it among themselves was pretty weak. Yes, they are a pair but does that mean their ideas/opinions have to be a consensus? Aren't they individual people with a mind of their own? Throwing all of the responsibility on the USOC to give your stance on the issue for you is a lame cop out as well.

    I applaud Ashley for speaking her mind. She's never been the cookie cutter pageant girl which is one of the reasons I have so much respect for her. She stated her position in the matter, made her point, and did it in a respectful way. She's a person with a brain and an opinion...given the responses from everyone else, the same can't be said for the rest of them. Even if they are just keeping their opinions to themselves, what Jenny said is right: these athletes do have a platform. I think the reason everyone passed on the question is b/c they're scared or don't want to get involved. But then there's that saying about two kinds of bad people in the world: ones who do bad things, and ones who see bad things happening but don't do anything about it. I'm not saying the skaters need to take drastic steps to protesting what's going on but simply stating an opinion is powerful enough. Considering that the gay community is largely represented in skating, you'd think more skaters would step up and say something. Everyone is too afraid to speak out against it...it's sad.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 10-09-2013 at 01:58 PM. Reason: avoiding censor

  13. #103
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    Given the amount mixed messages given by USOC/IOC, I don't blame them for being scared to respond. I've tried to read up on the issue and I have absolutely no clue what the USOC/IOC is advocating.

    Upon further thought, I just ambushing a bunch of athletes think a news conference is not the best approach to getting a statement. Ashley was a huge exception, but not everyone feels comfortable with talking about such a hot issue in that setting. I think if the journalists sincerely wanted to know what these folks thought, perhaps it would have been beneficial to ask the question in a one-to-one interview (there were plenty of opportunities for them).

    And how do we know these athletes aren't doing anything RE: Gay rights? Just because they don't speak out of it at one press conference, doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Maybe they prefer to do things in a more quiet manner? Point is, we can't base a skater's viewpoint/actions on a single statement (or lack of one).

    Back to TSL, certainly Dave and Jenny are entitled to their opinion, but they should be held accountable if the information they state is wrong or incorrect. Insinuating that the Shibtuanis lied about W/Ding or bribed their way to the World Team with no proof of such is wrong.

    IF they were a press outlet -- which they aren't, I guess (then why get press credentials?) -- they would be sued for libel.

    But since "it's just an opinion" I guess they can say whatever.

  14. #104
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    As a team, when one speaks, it tends to be considered from "all" on the team whether this is right or wrong. D/W did the right thing by not giving their opinion separately without consulting one another/US Figure Skating/USOC because this IS a political issue in the country that is hosting the Olympics. In addition to that, by not having discussed it among themselves and this question being sprung on them, there is the possibility of mis-speaking or not speaking with clarity in the heat of the moment which can be off-putting to the public. Frankly, I don't think it's a fair question to ask them.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You're right, that was mean of me. Sorry.

    As for Alissa Czisny of Bowling Green, Ohio, appearing in the ad for Chrysler of Auburn Hills, Michigan, featuring rapper Eminem of Rochester, Michigan, here is the follow-up ad: Perseverance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc41XPkPdec
    I don't have a problem with her not being from the streets, I just threw that out there to say what she did was no different than D/W's comments. Both Alissa's comments and D/W's could be considered reaching (what does figure skating have to do with a car manufacturing city), but they were very gracious. I enjoyed Alissa's ad (anything that gets skating on TV.) She did and does persevere, the topic of the commercial, and D/W also work hard despite being from wealthy families. Wealth will not buy the judge's scores.

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