The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people | Page 8 | Golden Skate

The Skating Lesson - Hating on the Shibs and Davis/White as people

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
But this is what irks me. Why should they be 'real' journalists?? And what does that mean anyway? To spout bs and lies on Fox News every night with a polite smile? They have a freaking WEBCAST!! They aren't CNN. And the fact that they have interviewed many of the major players shows that they are on the right track and putting out a quality product. You don't like? Then don't watch. But stop with the haterade. I hate Monty Python flims, have never laughed once, and want to implode when I have to sit through one. You know what I don't do? Go on the internet and complain and deride Monty Python and his fans. Just go away. Dave is one of the nicest men you could ever know. He doesn't float your boat? Then move on, but don't attack him. It really is that simple. And as for the comments he made about Miki, Rippon, Jason et al, it's called A SENSE OF HUMOR. You don't share that same sense of humor, like I don't with Monty Python. But stop your Nastie Nellie posts. You bring out the ugly in others when we don't want to go there. Thanks.

It's not haterade to provide constructive criticism. Why is it okay for Dave and Jenny to make remarks about skaters, some that are borderline cruel and mean spirited, because "it's their opinion," but it's mean and nasty for people to state their opinion on the podcast? :rolleye:

For the records, the comments RE: Miki, Jason et al, isn't what I'm criticizing. I'm criticizing the fact that they make baseless claims about skaters or the fact they're trying to play moral high-horse with hard-working people. Don't like Meryl and Charlie's response to the law in Russia? Fine. But you don't need to mock them to make your point.

As for whether they want to be real journalists or not, that's up to them. But then they shouldn't start whining when they can't get press passes.

Guess what there are a lot of great new media outlets that can't get media credentials. The SCOTUS Blog (http://www.scotusblog.com/) has become the top go-to resource regarding the Supreme Court, yet they can't get any press credentials from the Surpeme Court (http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnolog...id=1202622720261&No_Press_Pass_for_SCOTUSblog). But you don't see them whining about it-- in fact they build partnerships with other media outlets to get the information they need and then defy the Supreme Court by doing dome awesome reporting and analysis.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Thank you for your defense. It absolutely wasn't a lie. The evidence is available. They did say it, hopefully in jest. However, it speaks to the comment that "This and That" wasn't "tabloid trash."

I cited that conversation as evidence that they're not serious journalists, and I continue to believe they are not. "This and That" definitely is in the same vein as a tabloid.

It is a pity, because I've enjoyed several of their interviews. They are ratcheted down to a civilized and respectful tone, and I've learned things from their guests.


I live in New York City, where we have two major daily tabloids: The Daily News and The New York Post. And, in general, they do much better reporting on sporting news than "the newspaper of record" with a global reputation--The New York Times. Things aren't always "x always is bad." But this thread does seem to bring out the black and white responses.

My take is that This & That is still very very new. Frankly, I really enjoy it and look forward to seeing it every week, the same way that I read the Daily News AND the NYT (I won't even read The Post for free--I do have some standards!). If you don't that's your opinion. But reading some of these comments, I am expecting a crowd with pitchforks and blazing torches to storm the site any day now. Given that the site continues to grow (it may be slow growth, but growth after all is growth), it obviously does have an audience. And I don't expect that audience to stop watching in the near future.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
When I was in China talking to this wannabe Italian journalist, she went to Xinjiang. She bragged about asking the Xinjiang locals about the censorship by the Beijing government. She thought she was being very subversive and clever. I disagreed with what she did. If she were really interested in the locals' lives, she could ask them indirectly and obliquely about other matters to infer what was going on without putting anyone in a difficult position. Instead, she asked questions that could jeopardize anyone who talked to her. All this for a bit of journalistic glory. It was selfish and had little to do with educating the world about the Uighurs.

This is the same thing with the gay issue in Russia. No, athletes, journalists, gay people, etc. shouldn't be put in a tough spot just so some activists and "journalists" can feel their cause is validated. No one owes you anything, especially if it endangers their chances to win OGM and their physical safety.

Very reasonable!


What you have refered to as "humor" was a humor that probably has not yet reached the D level journalism. Then again, different strokes for different folks. Enjoy it all you like. Dave and Jenny should have been content for where they are now, and don't complain about not given access to the skating competitions.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I live in New York City, where we have two major daily tabloids: The Daily News and The New York Post. And, in general, they do much better reporting on sporting news than "the newspaper of record" with a global reputation--The New York Times. Things aren't always "x always is bad." But this thread does seem to bring out the black and white responses.

My take is that This & That is still very very new. Frankly, I really enjoy it and look forward to seeing it every week, the same way that I read the Daily News AND the NYT (I won't even read The Post for free--I do have some standards!). If you don't that's your opinion. But reading some of these comments, I am expecting a crowd with pitchforks and blazing torches to storm the site any day now. Given that the site continues to grow (it may be slow growth, but growth after all is growth), it obviously does have an audience. And I don't expect that audience to stop watching in the near future.

I don't think it's black and white. If I'm focusing on the criticism, it's because that's what we're talking about now. Just to clarify:

1.) I don't think it's right to attack Jenny or Dave personally. I don't think they're bad or terrible people. My disagreement is with content not the people.
2.) They do bring some good stuff to the table. The interviews are excellent and I think Jenny, in particular, is good at getting the discussion going and has a nice rapport. Dave tends to get a bit fan boy-ish, but I can see the amount of research he puts in.
3.) When they are strictly analytical, they are fine there too. For me, their analysis of Worlds was quite good and I enjoyed it thoroughly.
4.) Just because I criticize them doesn't mean I think they should go away. FWIW, they clearly have their fans and as I said, I think they do bring something to the table. And quite frankly I'm all for variety as far as coverage of anything be it figure skating, the Supreme Court or neighborhood news.

What I don't like is:

1.) Baseless and borderline libelous claims.
2.) Comments that edge on being mean-spirited. As I've stated several times, I think they can be pointed in their criticism of skaters without resorting to mean spirited comments. As I said, I felt the comments with Meryl were quite personal rather than just a commentary on what she said.
3.) Lots of speculative comments, i.e. with the whole Gracie Gold coaching situation. If they had a solid source that Gracie was changing coaches, they should have just went ahead and said it outright instead of all this dangling on social media.

I'm not a pitchforks kind of girl, so I won't be participating in any witch hunts. But I hope they are mindful of the criticisms they receive and use it make the podcast even better.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
It's not haterade to provide constructive criticism. Why is it okay for Dave and Jenny to make remarks about skaters, some that are borderline cruel and mean spirited, because "it's their opinion," but it's mean and nasty for people to state their opinion on the podcast? :rolleye:
.

I guess we have to agree to disagree that your definition of "cruel" is one hell of a lot different than mine. I've known "cruel" people in my lifetime, and Dave Lease is a lamb compared to them. It's okay if you don't get the sense of humor, it happens, I like to think I am 'hip' and 'now' with my friends' kids though I have no idea why they like the things they do. I go along to get along. I don't stand there and complain and criticize. I just don't 'get it'. Cruel and mean-spirited? It shows how different people can absorb a situation. I would not engage with cruel and mean-spirited people. I'm sorry you think these two are that. So if you just don't 'get' Jenny and Dave, don't watch. Spare yourself the pain. But stop posting negative things about them. It shows how dark your heart is.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I guess we have to agree to disagree that your definition of "cruel" is one hell of a lot different than mine. I've known "cruel" people in my lifetime, and Dave Lease is a lamb compared to them. It's okay if you don't get the sense of humor, it happens, I like to think I am 'hip' and 'now' with my friends' kids though I have no idea why they like the things they do. I go along to get along. I don't stand there and complain and criticize. I just don't 'get it'. So if you just don't 'get' Jenny and Dave, don't watch. Spare yourself the pain. But stop posting negative things about them. It shows how dark your heart is.

1.) Please see the post above yours that I just posted.

2.) You are stating that I'm being cruel, but yet you think it's OK to question/attack my character when you have never met me. That's seems fair. :sarcasm:

3.) I have tried to be rational regarding my criticisms and I have made a point of not attacking Jenny and Dave personally. I never said Dave himself is cruel, I said his comments can be cruel. There's a difference. In fact, I have posted several posts of what I like about TSL as well, but I guess you haven't bothered to look at those.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
I did like your post right above mine. Very nice.
And I am not personally attacking you, that's silly on an anon website, I am just venting about all the haterade that Dave and Jenny are getting. I actually like reading your posts. It's nothing personal. And I do enjoy your posts.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I did like your post right above mine. Very nice.
And I am not personally attacking you, that's silly on an anon website, I am just venting about all the haterade that Dave and Jenny are getting. I actually like reading your posts. It's nothing personal. And I do enjoy your posts.

Well, saying "your heart is dark" kinda seems personal. Just saying.

It's great that TSL has its loyal fans, that does show that its podcast, even with its flaws, has resonated with the fans and the skating community. But it's clear from this thread and reading some of its posts, that they can be quite polarizing. That's something they'll have to work out moving forward.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Well, saying "your heart is dark" kinda seems personal. Just saying.
.

No, I was not intending that comment to be directed to you personally. It is the general tone of many on this site, those that diminish J and D's hard work. I might be mistaken, but I think they both received their degrees in journalism. It is frustrating because it is clear that they have an interest in promoting this sport, a sport that has almost reached rigor mortis. I don't like the nasty comments about them. They are putting out a quality product, and if someone doesn't like it, then fine, move on. It really was nothing personal, but knowing Dave and hearing someone say he is cruel and mean-spirited, well, he's not. By far. But that's okay. (And NO I am not Dave under a pseud, before someone goes there) And I do enjoy your posts. I don't mind conflicting viewpoints, I just want people to be nice.
 

LauraV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I agree. I have a really hard time distinguishing their snark, which is probably part of my problem with them. Like when they would talk about Ashley earlier in the summer, it was hard for me to figure out if they were laughing with her or at her. And then Ashley came on and they played it out like it was all just good ol' fashioned teasing. Which it might have been. Or not.


To be clear, I wasn't implying any criticism of your response, Mrs. P. I was suggesting that Dave and Jenny could do a better job of dishing the snark while holding off on the meanspirited or libellous stuff.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
No, I was not intending that comment to be directed to you personally. It is the general tone of many on this site, those that diminish J and D's hard work. I might be mistaken, but I think they both received their degrees in journalism. It is frustrating because it is clear that they have an interest in promoting this sport, a sport that has almost reached rigor mortis. I don't like the nasty comments about them. They are putting out a quality product, and if someone doesn't like it, then fine, move on. It really was nothing personal, but knowing Dave and hearing someone say he is cruel and mean-spirited, well, he's not. By far. But that's okay. (And NO I am not Dave under a pseud, before someone goes there)

If they didn't have a compelling product, we wouldn't say anything about it, good or bad. I think 99 percent of the comments here are from folks who do see some value in what they offer, but just are concerned about various aspects of the enterprise.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
To be clear, I wasn't implying any criticism of your response, Mrs. P. I was suggesting that Dave and Jenny could do a better job of dishing the snark while holding off on the meanspirited or libellous stuff.

Oh, no didn't think you were critical at all. I agreed with your post! And I agree with this post also.

I didn't have a problem, again, with the Miki post-pregnancy jokes. However, accusing someone of bribing their way to the world team? Not so funny.
 

LauraV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
No, I was not intending that comment to be directed to you personally. It is the general tone of many on this site, those that diminish J and D's hard work. I might be mistaken, but I think they both received their degrees in journalism. It is frustrating because it is clear that they have an interest in promoting this sport, a sport that has almost reached rigor mortis. I don't like the nasty comments about them. They are putting out a quality product, and if someone doesn't like it, then fine, move on. It really was nothing personal, but knowing Dave and hearing someone say he is cruel and mean-spirited, well, he's not. By far. But that's okay. (And NO I am not Dave under a pseud, before someone goes there) And I do enjoy your posts. I don't mind conflicting viewpoints, I just want people to be nice.


I'm not sure people are saying Dave is himself cruel and mean-spirited, it's his comments that have been occasionally cruel and mean-spirited. A distinction like the one Dave's defenders have been making re his comments about Meryl - he wasn't calling her an idiot, just saying that her comments were idiotic. If we are going to parse words carefully on one side, we have to do it on the other side of the question too, right? Fair is fair.

Look, I am a fan of TSL - I watch it and enjoy it - with occasional reservations. I bet Dave is as nice a guy in person as you say he is, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is a good and loyal friend. A few posters here really dislike TSl, which is their prerogative, and if Dave and Jenny are going to dish in a free wheeling way, they are going to get some free wheeling, even harsh criticism in response. Most of the posters here are just trying to offer constructive criticism. I like TSL, I think it could be even better than it is and hope it will get there. I am really not seeing much that I would call "haterade" here.
 

LauraV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Oh, no didn't think you were critical at all. I agreed with your post! And I agree with this post also.

I didn't have a problem, again, with the Miki post-pregnancy jokes. However, accusing someone of bribing their way to the world team? Not so funny.


Absolutely agreed on that. The bribery allegation is just crazy talk.........
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I take Dave tongue in cheek. It is hard not to like D and W or the Shibutanis. We all have different interests/perspectives though. What is fun about Dave and Jenny is they are not just your every day reporter. But I too like a lot of us can been a bit sarcastic or dramatic =it makes life itneresting I suppose:) politics and skating though is something I am not sure that should be done together kind of like drugs and alcohol maybe.
 
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