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Thread: Virtue and Moir's Finlandia levels?

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  1. #1
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Virtue and Moir's Finlandia levels?

    Can anyone (Doris?) try to understand and explain me the reasons that caused Tessa and Scott to receive such low levels in Finlandia? Especially the level2 spin and the level1 RoLi... Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    I'm no specialist, but the Finlandia judges tend to always be stricter. I'm interested in their justifications though.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    OK, here's my take on the lift.

    Here's the lift. It's the second last lift in the program, right before their diagonal step sequence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxk...ilpage#t=3m18s


    What they are going for is a change of position rotational lift from a difficult/creative entry. Clearly Tessa changes position. At the time Scott starts rotating, Tessa is already on his shoulders, and then she changes to a position at his chest level. Clearly that flip in is a difficult entry. However, no credit is given for the entry if they don't make the requirements for Level 3, so the thing to watch when reviewing this lift is what Scott does.

    The reason that the lift was reviewed is that Scott clearly stops rotating for a short time during the lift. The following question in the Tech Manual deals with the situation:


    Question: What happens if the lifting partner stops continuous rotation during a Rotational Lift or a direction of a Reverse Rotational Lift (this means the lifting partner rotates for a while, stops rotation, and then continues to rotate some more)?

    Answer: As long as the lifting partner is traveling and not on the spot, the rotations can continue to be counted. However, the feature for the lifted partner is affected in the following way:  if the lifted partner is in a Difficult Pose when the rotation stops, the Level is reduced by one,
     if the lifted partner is moving though a Change of Pose when the rotation stops, the feature is not considered for Level.

    Comment: If the lifting partner stops traveling, the rotations and features are not considered for Level from that point on.
    So I believe the problem was that Scott stopped rotating while Tessa was going through the change of pose. If she doesn't get credit for a change of pose, the level falls all the way back to Level 1.

    Here's the Levels, edited so that you see only the parts that apply to them.


    Level 1
    OPTION 1
    Lifted partner is held off the ice through at least 3 rotations
    AND
    Lifting partner moves through at least 3 rotations


    Level 2
    OPTION 1
    Lifted partner ... moves through a Change of Pose
    AND
    Lifting partner moves through at least 4 rotations
    So I believe that's how the panel saw it.

    Here's a link to the point in the FD so you can look at it again to see what you think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxk...ilpage#t=3m18s
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 10-10-2013 at 04:22 AM.

  4. #4
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Level 2 Combination Spin

    Here's the spin
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxk...ailpage#t=150s

    They appear to be kind of unsteady in the pair sit spin part of the combination, which is the last part of the spin. I believe this is what got the spin reviewed.

    What they had planned was a level 4 combination spin.
    They plan rotating in a pair simple camel position; on the same leg changing to an upright position with Tessa in a full layback, and Scott simply upright, then separating and changing the leg they are standing on (makes it a combination spin) and both spinning in a sit position with a difficult variation. Scott's difficult variation is "Free leg bent or straight directed forward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;" Tessa's difficult sit variation is "Free leg bent or straight directed backward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice" while Scott is holding her free leg foot.

    I believe Scott gets credit for his simple camel, because he does at least 2 revolutions in the position and he has his leg is a horizontal line or higher. I believe Tessa gets credit for her layback. Although it takes her a while to get into the established position (where her "the spine is arched from the waist to the upper back," I think there are at least 2 revolutions after she gets there. The problem comes with the sit positions for both of them.

    After Scott gets his leg straight out, he wobbles a bit and the leg is no longer horizontal to the ice. Tessa has slight wobbles because Scott is holding her foot, which throws her off a tiny bit

    Rotations in Difficult Variation shall be taken into consideration for the purpose of Level when
    performed continuously in a fully established position
    I think they do not get credit for Scott's sit position. The question for me is whether Scott's wobble causes enough of a problem with Tessa so that she also loses credit for a "fully established position" - I believe the panel did not give them the credit.

    This means they fulfilled requirements for Level 2 that they attempted:

    2 different Basic Positions (1 by one partner and 1 by the other partner): each Difficult Variation for at least 2
    rotations
    but didn't meet requirements for Level 3

    OPTION 1
    ...
    3 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (3 by same partner or 2 by one partner and 1 by the other partner): each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    I didn't see any putting of a foot down or stoppage of rotation that should have caused them to lose a level otherwise.

    Here's the spin again so you can check this out for yourself
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxk...ailpage#t=150s

  5. #5
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Thank you SO MUCH Doris!! This kind of analysis is exactly what I was looking for!

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    Make that a double thank-you. I'm still learning the intricacies of dance scoring and dissections of elements by knowledgeable people like dorispulaski are my main educational tool! :-))

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    OK, here's my take on the lift.

    Here's the lift. It's the second last lift in the program, right before their diagonal step sequence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxk...ilpage#t=3m18s


    What they are going for is a change of position rotational lift from a difficult/creative entry. Clearly Tessa changes position. At the time Scott starts rotating, Tessa is already on his shoulders, and then she changes to a position at his chest level. Clearly that flip in is a difficult entry. However, no credit is given for the entry if they don't make the requirements for Level 3, so the thing to watch when reviewing this lift is what Scott does.

    The reason that the lift was reviewed is that Scott clearly stops rotating for a short time during the lift. The following question in the Tech Manual deals with the situation:




    So I believe the problem was that Scott stopped rotating while Tessa was going through the change of pose. If she doesn't get credit for a change of pose, the level falls all the way back to Level 1.

    Here's the Levels, edited so that you see only the parts that apply to them.




    So I believe that's how the panel saw it.

    Here's a link to the point in the FD so you can look at it again to see what you think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxk...ilpage#t=3m18s
    You are correct.

  8. #8
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    You are correct.
    Doris is always correct

  9. #9
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    This is just one competition and to me it means nothing towards the Olympics. The competition is still very close and who knows what the judges will like more.

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