Patrick Chan article

Bluebonnet · Oct 18, 2013

Mathman said:
^ The problem is, why would anyone think that his friend's Asian-ness might conceivably "bother" someone? The very fact that the question is raised at all indicates a perception that there is something not quite Kosher about being Asian.

As for Patrick, he's a credit to his race -- not that there's anything wrong with it.

Face it, Math. There are a lot of western people thinking Asians are "something not quite Kosher". Typically, there is a poster on GS, who is still posting, has posted numerous times about "disgusting nature" of Chinese and Korean culture.

Patrick was just so untactfully laid out the fact.

Violet Bliss · Oct 18, 2013

There are many ways to support a cause or a subset of people. Loudly and openly demanding rights is just one of them. For most people, including those within the group fighting for rights, probably the best is to live a life that shows they are no different from the majority other than the one difference being focused on, be it race or sexual orientation, or better yet to excel and succeed better than the general population or to support such rights and opportunities as Patrick does. In doing so, more and more people will realize and eventually acknowledge the equality. In Patrick's case, he is choosing to focus on the competition but his statement that some of the gay skaters are his best friends (not some of his best friends are gay) is for the general readers because most skating fans already know he has always been close with some fellow skaters who are gay and gay skaters are among those he has declared as his inspiration whom he looks up to the most. He chooses to support them by treating them with respect in his whole life instead of voicing strongly on one issue during a period of time he wants and needs to focus on a major goal of his life.

The are many causes each person can choose to support and each person should have the right to support each cause in ways that s/he sees fit.

Mathman · Oct 18, 2013

^ All quite true. It's just that...doggone it, Patrick should be better at these interviews after all these years of practice. We once praised his "refreshing boyish candor." But he's not a boy any more.

Oh well.

Violet Bliss · Oct 18, 2013

Mathman said:
^ All quite true. It's just that...doggone it, Patrick should be better at these interviews after all these years of practice. We once praised his "refreshing boyish candor." But he's not a boy any more.

Oh well.

Just because some people use "some of my best friends are ......" as preemptive defense for their real opinions does not mean others cannot state it sincerely as a fact. There is no "but" to this statement from Patrick. I don't expect or demand people to be so slick or able to be pleasing all the people.

ice coverage · Oct 18, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Ashley Wagner made similar comments about how "I have gay family members and a lot of friends in the LGBT community”. I think he's acknowledging that there are many gays in figure skating, and pointing out many of his friends are gay. I think the "it doesn't bother me" comment is in the context of how gays are stigmatized and how gays at the Olympics is a hot topic. It's like if somebody said "I'm fine with gay athletes being proud of who they are" and people taking that as "Well, thanks so much for being okay with gays being comfortable with themselves". I think it might have been better if he added "it doesn't bother me, nor should it", but that's scrutinizing somebody who simply means well. Semantics aside, he's genuinely showing support, and not many athletes have done that. If you happen to not like Chan, that's fine. But if every athlete said something like Wagner and Chan and Bode Miller have said, that's how we slowly bring intolerance to its knees come Sochi.

Mathman said:
.... doggone it, Patrick should be better at these interviews after all these years of practice. We once praised his "refreshing boyish candor." But he's not a boy any more.

Oh well.

Two points:

(1) Criticism has rained down on three other skaters -- who, like Chan, have years and years of media experience -- for their comments on the Russian law. I'm referring to Jeremy Abbott and to the "Teflon couple" (99.9999% of the time) of Meryl Davis and Charlie White.
I do believe that in this situation (as well as in other situations), Chan's heart is in the right place and that he intended no offense. Same goes for Abbott, Davis, and White, IMHO.

(2) As a member of a minority, I think my natural instinct is to take extra care to follow the Golden Rule in terms of other minorities: to treat them with the same respect with which I wish to be treated.
I think most members of minority groups have the same instinct, and I believe that Chan is one of them. I feel sure that his meaning was, "It doesn't bother me, nor should it."

SkateFiguring said:
There are many ways to support a cause or a subset of people. Loudly and openly demanding rights is just one of them. For most people, including those within the group fighting for rights, probably the best is to live a life that shows they are no different from the majority other than the one difference being focused on, be it race or sexual orientation, or better yet to excel and succeed better than the general population or to support such rights and opportunities as Patrick does. In doing so, more and more people will realize and eventually acknowledge the equality. In Patrick's case, he is choosing to focus on the competition but his statement that some of the gay skaters are his best friends (not some of his best friends are gay) is for the general readers because most skating fans already know he has always been close with some fellow skaters who are gay and gay skaters are among those he has declared as his inspiration whom he looks up to the most. He chooses to support them by treating them with respect in his whole life instead of voicing strongly on one issue during a period of time he wants and needs to focus on a major goal of his life.

The are many causes each person can choose to support and each person should have the right to support each cause in ways that s/he sees fit.

:agree: Many thx for your thoughtful and eloquent post, SkateFiguring. :bow:

Bluebonnet · Oct 18, 2013

Mathman said:
^ All quite true. It's just that...doggone it, Patrick should be better at these interviews after all these years of practice. We once praised his "refreshing boyish candor." But he's not a boy any more.

Oh well.

Patrick may never be a good journalist or a politician. So what? He is loved by many just the way he is. :biggrin:

Just because he is not on the bandwagon of some people's, like Davis&White, he does not deserve this microscopic level nitpicking. Every skater has the right to choose what they support or not. They have the right to focus on things that are the most important to themselves.

emdee · Oct 18, 2013

SkateFiguring said:
Just because some people use "some of my best friends are ......" as preemptive defense for their real opinions does not mean others cannot state it sincerely as a fact. There is no "but" to this statement from Patrick. I don't expect or demand people to be so slick or able to be pleasing all the people.

Hear,hear!

Patrick is a skater by trade and not a spokesperson. I prefer that his statements are open and honest (sometimes ends up with egg on his face )rather than some of the orchestrated statements that come out of very politically correct skaters.

emdee · Oct 18, 2013

(2) As a member of a minority, I think my natural instinct is to take extra care to follow the Golden Rule in terms of other minorities: to treat them with the same respect with which I wish to be treated.
I think most members of minority groups have the same instinct, and I believe that Chan is one of them. I feel sure that his meaning was, "It doesn't bother me, nor should it."

I too am a member of a minority and like to follow the same rule...
Another voice of reason.

Mathman · Oct 18, 2013

No one is implying that Patrick is a secret homophobe or an insensitive person.

It's just that, to me, it is a little bit retro to keep raising the questions of whether gay athletes should be allowed to compete alongside straight athletes, whether athletes of different races should be allowed equal access to competitive sports, and whether or not we should be bothered by the sexual orientation of our friends. That fight is over. The good guys won.

By the same token I was slightly disappointed with the recently ballyhooed decision of the USOC to add sexual orientation to the list of things that we shouldn't discriminate against. What is this, the 1990s?

Anyway, I will just enjoy Patrick's skating. If he repeats the magic of his 2008 version of Four Seasons, he's got my vote.

Bluebonnet · Oct 18, 2013

I am a member of a minority too. I also understand and take extra care for the minority group's needs. However, I do not sacrifice moral standard for anything.

I think Patrick's statement is inline with the Olympic Charter which is all about sports and sport competitions. All "no discriminations" are about just that. To forcefully inject politics into the Olympics is a selfish act.

Mathman · Oct 18, 2013

Bluebonnet said:
I am a member of a minority too. I also understand and take extra care for the minority group's needs. However, I do not sacrifice moral standard for anything.

Every one on this board has high moral standards. (It's a requirement.

)

Blades of Passion · Oct 18, 2013

Bluebonnet said:
However, I do not sacrifice moral standard for anything.

Yes you do. You lower your standards for how a certain group of people should be treated, solely out of fear of something that doesn't effect you to begin with.

Bluebonnet said:
To forcefully inject politics into the Olympics is a selfish act.

And yet that's what Russia has done, since the country's leader wants to make himself appear more powerful and there are enough uneducated citizens within the country who latch onto his hateful beliefs as a means of personal comfort.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 18, 2013

SkateFiguring said:
There are many ways to support a cause or a subset of people. Loudly and openly demanding rights is just one of them. For most people, including those within the group fighting for rights, probably the best is to live a life that shows they are no different from the majority other than the one difference being focused on, be it race or sexual orientation, or better yet to excel and succeed better than the general population or to support such rights and opportunities as Patrick does. In doing so, more and more people will realize and eventually acknowledge the equality.

One should not have to earn the right to not be discriminated against or stigmatized by society through successes. It should be par for the course. If you are being discriminated against, you must demand rights. There have been numerous LGBT people historically who have achieved success and gays are still stigmatized, so clearly that doesn't significantly affect a minority's standing in society.

It's like saying, now that Obama is President, everyone should quit being racist to black people (when obviously there never should have been discrimination in the first place). It shouldn't have to take a member of a minority to "break barriers" just so the rest of the minority can be start to be free of discrimination.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 18, 2013

Mathman said:
Every one on this board has high moral standards. (It's a requirement. )

Ah, but some animals are more equal than others.

Violet Bliss · Oct 18, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
One should not have to earn the right to not be discriminated against or stigmatized by society through successes. It should be par for the course. If you are being discriminated against, you must demand rights. There have been numerous LGBT people historically who have achieved success and gays are still stigmatized, so clearly that doesn't significantly affect a minority's standing in society.

It's like saying, now that Obama is President, everyone should quit being racist to black people (when obviously there never should have been discrimination in the first place). It shouldn't have to take a member of a minority to "break barriers" just so the rest of the minority can be start to be free of discrimination.

It's not at all what I said or implied to not demand rights. Demanding rights directly and forcefully is just one of the ways to bring about changes but there is a time and place for it. It can create backlash or be very dangerous at the wrong place and the wrong time. Even in the US laws have only started to change for the LGBT recently and the attitude of the whole society has still a way to go for full acceptance. In a democracy, changes in laws and practice follow changes in people's perception and attitude, not always for the better, e.g. Muslims' rights and safety have suffered greatly since 9/11. Any effective way to make people realize a discriminated group is no threat to but much like the rest of the society goes a long way to effect changes in attitude. And different cultures and societies do not evolve at the same way, time, or pace. One cannot demand other countries to elect the same laws as soon as one's own country does. Keep in mind that your own society is likely considered backward in some ways by other people. E.g. US and Canada certainly take their time to ratify the wrongs and atrocities committed against the Chinese, Japanese and the aboriginal peoples.

As I said, one has the right to choose one's causes as well as the ways to support these causes. I believe it's most important to change minds, one at the time, until the critical mass is reached when rapid changes will occur. So it's up to each person to act according to what s/he considers the most effective way to change minds.

figurejennah · Oct 19, 2013

GF2445 said:
Technically not gold medal. patrick is insistent that his coach is knowledgable about the technical aspects of skating. We'll see how his jumps are this season. Artistically, Patrick has thrived due to Cathy Johnson and is had and shoulders above his competitors in terms of artistic considerations. Shows that there are some benefits of having a modern dance teacher as a coach.

Too bad he is inconsistent. Patrick was such a joy to watch at an ice show... He did fall... lol... but he had the biggest smile on his face and got right back up. He brought a huge smile on my face as well. He is a charming skater and does have talents. As long as his nerves doesn't get to him, I think he's got chances.

I hate to repost about this on another thread, but I am selling Skate Canada tickets. Prime seats (Section C- Row 2). I bought these for $180 per ticket, but I am selling them for $160 for both. IF anyone would like to buy them, please let me know. I really wanted to go see Patrick and Tessa couple, but I just can't make it anymore....

Skater Boy · Oct 19, 2013

Oh dear gosh - let the kids skate. Let's not try to over analyze people's words if it wasn't Patty it would be Meryl or Dai or whoever. Respect yes is important. I don't think any skaters are trying to make forced political perspectives - they just want to skate to be the best in an atmosphere of competitive sportsmanship.

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