2013-2014 Skate America - Ladies Championshps | Page 6 | Golden Skate

2013-2014 Skate America - Ladies Championshps

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Moreover, Ash and Gracie seem to have the same problem in their long programs; both seem mismatched with an emotionally delicate, passive, 'soft' character, Juliet for Ashley and Sleeping Beauty for Gracie.

Agreed. This is the first time I've seen Ashley with a FS that just doesn't connect with her. Even prior to Black Swan, she had programs that fit her style of skating. R&J sounded great as a concept but the execution is leaving a lot to be desired...
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Lately, there's been a few stories in the news about how the media's portrayal of girls as being soft, delicate, etc. is so terrible. (A "Survival Book for Girls" was banned from a small bookstore because the things to "survive" were so stupid; also, I've seen a couple of articles against frilly, girly Halloween costumes, one suggesting that girls dress like Amelia Earhart or Susan B. Anthony instead of Disney Princesses.)

It's ironic, then, that female figure skaters seem to be going in the other direction, becoming more girly and princessy than ever. That's why I miss people like Tonya, Midori and even Irina. They may have been many things, but delicate princesses were not one of them.

I truly hope and pray that the three gold medalists in the jumping categories do not fall in Sochi. When the casual viewers/reporters get a look at how the judging has evolved over the last couple of years, the sport will be in serious, serious trouble. If the Olympics can get rid of wrestling, it can get rid of anything.
 

Eislauf

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
With all this discussion about strong, powerful female skaters having to portray fragile, delicate characters, I started wishing that Tonya was still skating (minus her maiming other skaters of course).She was a tough-as-nails, muscled-up, jumping powerhouse and made no apologies for her skating or her unconventional music (Tone Loc,Jurassic Park). It was actually kind of refreshing that she didn't try to play pretty princess (at least i don't think so) and openly talked about how excited she was about earning lots of money from skating!!
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think Tonya would do well under this system. The fact that Gracie gets fairly high PCS almost solely on the basis of her strong fundamental skating ability leads me to believe Tonya would get great PCS marks. I think you'd see her get all +2 and +3 on her jumps as well, particularly her lutz.
 

Eislauf

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Lately, there's been a few stories in the news about how the media's portrayal of girls as being soft, delicate, etc. is so terrible. (A "Survival Book for Girls" was banned from a small bookstore because the things to "survive" were so stupid; also, I've seen a couple of articles against frilly, girly Halloween costumes, one suggesting that girls dress like Amelia Earhart or Susan B. Anthony instead of Disney Princesses.)

It's ironic, then, that female figure skaters seem to be going in the other direction, becoming more girly and princessy than ever. That's why I miss people like Tonya, Midori and even Irina. They may have been many things, but delicate princesses were not one of them.

That's a very interesting point you make: indeed, it's almost paradoxical that as female skaters have ramped up their athleticism, they also seem to be becoming more stereotypically "princessy" in skating style and on-ice personas. I wonder if the Disney Princess-ification of girls reflects societal anxieties about women becoming "too powerful" in corporate America, government, the family unit and so on? Hard to know. I miss all the skaters you named as well.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
You can still have plenty of artistry with CoP, the problem is the judges don't reward it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovkJMZmhFe8

This deserved the highest PCS of the the Ladies competition at Skate America, but instead she only got the 5th highest. She also got screwed over on some of the level calls (Layback called as Level 1 when it's clearly Level 3? Footwork only called as Level 2, should have been level 3. Combination spin was a Level 4, but she only got credit for Level 3).

I've never really watched Cesario before, but my goodness--she has that "it" factor. That program does what I think choreography should do: use music to create character and incite emotion in the viewer. I was very impressed.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Lately, there's been a few stories in the news about how the media's portrayal of girls as being soft, delicate, etc. is so terrible. (A "Survival Book for Girls" was banned from a small bookstore because the things to "survive" were so stupid; also, I've seen a couple of articles against frilly, girly Halloween costumes, one suggesting that girls dress like Amelia Earhart or Susan B. Anthony instead of Disney Princesses.)

It's ironic, then, that female figure skaters seem to be going in the other direction, becoming more girly and princessy than ever. That's why I miss people like Tonya, Midori and even Irina. They may have been many things, but delicate princesses were not one of them.

In the USA, it is perhaps not coincidental that the only steady work in skating is the Disney ice shows these days.

What bugs me about most of these roles is that becoming a princess in real life is an impossible goal. And Amelia Earhart was gutsy but died young, not something I'd want my granddaughter to emulate particularly.

OTOH, I can't see her dressing up as Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper or Hillary Clinton or Mother Teresa or Susan B. Anthony-none of them liked pink as much as my granddaughter.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
To be honest, I am getting a bit tired of the refrain "COP killed the sport popularity." Would Mao have won over Ashley under 6.0 had they skated like they did at SA this past weekend? Maybe someone more familiar could help enlighten me, but I would think yes, even with the fall (it would maybe have been a 5-4 split, but a win nevertheless). I would think judges would find ways to reward her for the 3A attempt, not to mention the always-elusive artistry mark.

In any case, I think skating's demise in the USA is mostly due to the lack of a star who can consistently dominate on the world stage in the ladies discipline*. Not many casual fans would want to make the trek to Detroit to watch Ashley lose to Mao, or Yuna, or Carolina. Just look at Korea: when Yuna is skating, the events are full to the brims. When she's not, it is not the same. In Japan, there is an embarrassment of riches as far as talent is concerned, but what will happen after the current crop retires? will Japanese fans still fill arenas? For us on this and similar forums, we watch skating because we are passionate about it, and we will keep watching regardless of where the champions are from. For the causal fan, nationalism plays a big role in sports following at the international level, imo. How many people in the US stopped watching the Tour of France after the Armstrong retirement and following fiasco? A lot, I would think.

In the US, the introduction of IJS coincided with the retirement of Michelle, hence the start of the decline. After Sasha retired in 2006, it was the kiss of death.

Another factor that is playing a key role in this phenomena is the technological developments of the internet age. How many would choose to save on time, cost and effort and opt to watch an event from the comfort of their home instead of traveling to the arena?

* I realize that ladies is not the only discipline, but it seems to be the only one of interest in the US. Case in point: the successes of Davis and White and Evan Lysacek

The popularity decreases when stars retire mostly because a lot of people don't care about skating, they simply want to support their skaters against competitors form rival countries (like Japan and Korea, etc).
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
In the USA, it is perhaps not coincidental that the only steady work in skating is the Disney ice shows these days.

What bugs me about most of these roles is that becoming a princess in real life is an impossible goal. And Amelia Earhart was gutsy but died young, not something I'd want my granddaughter to emulate particularly.

OTOH, I can't see her dressing up as Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper or Hillary Clinton or Mother Teresa or Susan B. Anthony-none of them liked pink as much as my granddaughter.

But that's exactly why we dress up as princesses--because one can't aspire to it in real life. There's nothing wrong about playing princess at an early age or a later age. For a long time, through the 1970s, many people seemed to feel that girls would grow up stronger if they played with unisex toys and dressed powerfully and androgynously. Then princesses crept back into vogue. So did fewer girls grow up to be doctors and jet pilots? On the contrary: more girls are doing those things. I think there's a streak in many girls that yearns for princesses and/or for velvet dresses. It doesn't correlate with a fear of math or a lack of aspiration. There's no need to wear dreary, virtuous Halloween costumes in order to keep oneself motivated to aim for the stars. (Though I admire Grace Hopper!) A little frivolity and glamor won't lower the IQ.

I bet your granddaughter looks great in pink, and I bet she's inherited Grandma's facility with math and research as well.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
But that's exactly why we dress up as princesses--because one can't aspire to it in real life. There's nothing wrong about playing princess at an early age or a later age. For a long time, through the 1970s, many people seemed to feel that girls would grow up stronger if they played with unisex toys and dressed powerfully and androgynously. Then princesses crept back into vogue. So did fewer girls grow up to be doctors and jet pilots? On the contrary: more girls are doing those things. I think there's a streak in many girls that yearns for princesses and/or for velvet dresses. It doesn't correlate with a fear of math or a lack of aspiration. There's no need to wear dreary, virtuous Halloween costumes in order to keep oneself motivated to aim for the stars. (Though I admire Grace Hopper!) A little frivolity and glamor won't lower the IQ.

I bet your granddaughter looks great in pink, and I bet she's inherited Grandma's facility with math and research as well.

A harmless break from reality never hurt anybody... in fact it can be very healing (granted my pocketbook may disagree, but I think a trip down Disney lane is always a good thing!)
 

PaulE

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Country
United-States
OTOH, I can't see her dressing up as Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper or Hillary Clinton or Mother Teresa or Susan B. Anthony-none of them liked pink as much as my granddaughter.

Please forgive me for going off topic but I wanted to thank Doris for the reference to Admiral Hopper. She is one of my heroes (heroines?). I was fortunate to hear one of her speeches at the Naval Base in California where I worked. I fondly remember one of the lines of her talk about the first computer bug when she said: "It was World War II so of course we were working in a World War I temporary building." This statement has seemed to apply several times during my college years and my career working for the Navy. One of my prized possessions is a navy baseball cap with the name of the US destroyer named after her. I bought it when I was fortunate to work on the pre-deployment tests of the combat systems for the DDG-70 (USS Hopper).
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Please forgive me for going off topic but I wanted to thank Doris for the reference to Admiral Hopper. She is one of my heroes (heroines?). I was fortunate to hear one of her speeches at the Naval Base in California where I worked. I fondly remember one of the lines of her talk about the first computer bug when she said: "It was World War II so of course we were working in a World War I temporary building." This statement has seemed to apply several times during my college years and my career working for the Navy. One of my prized possessions is a navy baseball cap with the name of the US destroyer named after her. I bought it when I was fortunate to work on the pre-deployment tests of the combat systems for the DDG-70 (USS Hopper).

What a wonderful story! She's also someone I admire. (A shero? Whatever the word, she's it.) I'm jealous that you got to hear her. I didn't realize they named a destroyer after her. A well-deserved accolade. How I learned about her was years ago, one of the major magazines (Time, LIFE, or one of those) had a special issue about accomplished women, and she was one of them. While she may not make it as a Halloween costume, she certainly should be someone that girls learn about. Boys, too!
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
What a wonderful story! She's also someone I admire. (A shero? Whatever the word, she's it.) I'm jealous that you got to hear her. I didn't realize they named a destroyer after her. A well-deserved accolade. How I learned about her was years ago, one of the major magazines (Time, LIFE, or one of those) had a special issue about accomplished women, and she was one of them. While she may not make it as a Halloween costume, she certainly should be someone that girls learn about. Boys, too!
Whatever happened to "heroine"? Is that deemed to be insufficiently stern these days?

I'm sorry, but "shero" sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon. :laugh:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Whatever happened to "heroine"? Is that deemed to be insufficiently stern these days?

Could be. A heroine might mean the beautiful princess that spends the whole story sitting around waiting to be rescued by the dashing knight errant. A hero, or hoagy, could be male or female, i think?
 
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