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Thread: 2013-2014 Skate America - Ladies Championshps

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I truly believe NBC wants it that way.
    I suppose that makes sense, as it benefits NBC to have a marquee name at the Olympics, and Ashley has the best shot at a medal of any American singles skater.

  2. #62
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I suppose that makes sense, as it benefits NBC to have a marquee name at the Olympics, and Ashley has the best shot at a medal of any American singles skater.
    It also makes it easier to "villify" anyone non American who wins over an American. It's the eville system at work. NBC is stuck in the Cold War era - especially when they talk pairs or ice dance... I'm sure they could somehow hate on Japan for the ladies...

    it will be interesting to see how they treat Canada for Men's skating... they've been big fans of Chan... but this is the Olympics... so either they forget about Team USA because there's no way we'll podium and put all their eggs in Chan's basket or...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinichelle
    I truly believe NBC wants it that way.
    May be. But Scott could have tried to convince his bosses that there was a better story line. Better, that is, than, oh this crazy sport, I don't know if the judges in their whimsy or malice will give it to the American girl (yay!) or the foreigner (boo!)

    They could have played it as, here is a chance for the American champion to measure herself against the two-time world champion and reigning Olympic silver medalist, Mao Asada of Japan. Wagner gave an excellent performance, and Asada left the door open by falling on her biggest element - a triple Axel, which no other lady attempts. But Asada had a decisive edge in spin levels and fundamental edging skills, which translates into enough points in the scoring system to keep her safely ahead. And here are the scores...yup, this reflects the gap in the blah, blah, and blah. These are the areas that Wagner needs to focus on as she continues her quest for a third straight U.S. championship and a possible Olympic medal for the good ol' U.S. of A.
    Last edited by Mathman; 10-21-2013 at 06:43 PM.

  4. #64
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    We don't know what the NBC powers that be want, nor what Scott may or may not have said in the conferences. For all we know they've told Scott there are other commentators they could get that would play their game... but Scott has admitted in the past that he has and will do what the director tells him to - even if he doesn't completely agree.

    I'm just inclined to think NBC doesn't like the change - because the powers at be don't understand it - so they don't want to support it. Nevermind THEIR outcry in 2002 is what gave major leverage to this system to be put in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I agree that Scott and Sandra were partial to Ashley, but honestly it is really hard to commentate these events live. As Scott mentioned, he hasn't a clue where these skaters will end up, even after they perform. It's almost funny to watch the commentators guess wrong at the placements and then not express any surprise that they were so wrong. Two programs can look identical but one with four URs can be 20 points lower. In addition, falls aren't as bad as they used to be; Ashley's lutz probably looked fine to the casual viewer yet it scored lower than Mao's fall on the 3A (not counting the fall penalty).
    ITA. I think it's very complicated to commentate these events live.

    For example: Asada in this SA. When I watched Asada's FS, I was not sure what scores she would get from her second 3F. To me, it seemed to be underrotated, but in the end, there was no underrotation call in the protocole. Her cautious performance after a hard fall on 3A didn't affect Asada's PCS.

    I'm not a fan of Scott and Sandra, but it's understandable the way they do their jobs.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by szidon View Post
    ITA. I think it's very complicated to commentate these events live.

    For example: Asada in this SA. When I watched Asada's FS, I was not sure what scores she would get from her second 3F. To me, it seemed to be underrotated, but in the end, there was no underrotation call in the protocole. Her cautious performance after a hard fall on 3A didn't affect Asada's PCS.

    I'm not a fan of Scott and Sandra, but it's understandable the way they do their jobs.
    I know what you mean. I remember watching 2013 JWorlds and the British commentators thought Samantha Cesario was going to medal and she did not because of UR that were not visible to them. However, Scott and Sandra know that Mao has better spins and skating skills than Ashley and they should have said that, because the casual viewer may not know that.

  7. #67
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Mao Asada deserved to win the competition. She was the best over the SP+LP and I agree with FlattFan in that it seems, to me, that she has improved in both overall skating skills and speed. This was not a great skate from her, but aside from the fall on the 3A it was pretty clean to the naked eye. I'd say she was about 2-3 points overscored in the PCS in the LP.

    Ashley Wagner...well, I like her as a person and think she's making great progress on upping her technical content (3F+3T, just like she said she would!) as well as landing her jumps with such steadiness and confidence...but her programs this year are so blah. :( Oh, Mr. Wilson, you are amazing but this is such a dud of a Long Program and her SP makes her look like a Shae-Lynn wannabe without Shae-Lynn's natural sensuality but injected with Tonya Harding style. I don't intend to be mean, but this is my honest opinion. I'm so torn, because she's improved greatly in one area and yet disappointed in another. And unfortunately, it's true that her overall basics aren't at Asada's level.

    I most enjoyed Elizaveta Tuktamysheva's LP. She botches up her SP but comes dashing out in the Long and performing like a diva (in a good way.) I'm glad Mishin is proud of his fiery little student. It's hard to tell whether her ice coverage has improved, though, from the videos. I remember that was an obvious weakness for her a few years ago at Skate Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    May be. But Scott could have tried to convince his bosses that there was a better story line. Better, that is, than, oh this crazy sport, I don't know if the judges in their whimsy or malice will give it to the American girl (yay!) or the foreigner (boo!)

    They could have played it as, here is a chance for the American champion to measure herself against the two-time world champion and reigning Olympic silver medalist, Mao Asada of Japan. Wagner gave an excellent performance, and Asada left the door open by falling on her biggest element - a triple Axel, which no other lady attempts. But Asada had a decisive edge in spin levels and fundamental edging skills, which translates into enough points in the scoring system to keep her safely ahead. And here are the scores...yup, this reflects the gap in the blah, blah, and blah. These are the areas that Wagner needs to focus on as she continues her quest for a third straight U.S. championship and a possible Olympic medal for the good ol' U.S. of A.
    Mathman, I LOVE this! Exactly right. Wish *you* could be commenting!! Seriously, I think you have outlined not only an interesting and compelling storyline but also the CORRECT storyline!

  9. #69
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    May be. But Scott could have tried to convince his bosses that there was a better story line. Better, that is, than, oh this crazy sport, I don't know if the judges in their whimsy or malice will give it to the American girl (yay!) or the foreigner (boo!)

    They could have played it as, here is a chance for the American champion to measure herself against the two-time world champion and reigning Olympic silver medalist, Mao Asada of Japan. Wagner gave an excellent performance, and Asada left the door open by falling on her biggest element - a triple Axel, which no other lady attempts. But Asada had a decisive edge in spin levels and fundamental edging skills, which translates into enough points in the scoring system to keep her safely ahead. And here are the scores...yup, this reflects the gap in the blah, blah, and blah. These are the areas that Wagner needs to focus on as she continues her quest for a third straight U.S. championship and a possible Olympic medal for the good ol' U.S. of A.
    Why, Mathman, you made that sound really exciting... and I do believe I almost felt a bit teary-eyed... and I'm not even American!

  10. #70
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    Mao's FS posted by a fan who recorded the video in the arena.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5tR44Y-X9Y

    Love this video! You can see how much ice she covers with each stroke.

  11. #71
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    I'm so confused. Why are people saying Mao didn't skate well here? She landed the 3A in the SP; yes it was 2-footed but it wasn't a disruptive/jarring 2-foot landing. She finished out the rest of the gorgeous program cleanly. Yes, she fell on her 3A in the FS and took out some of the difficulty but she landed all 5 triple jumps she attempted and got level 4s on everything...how is that not skating well? She didn't get < on any of her triples other than the 3A...the program was very nice and suits her well.

    Considering Mao has never been a strong beginning-of-the-season skater and seeing as how she didn't land 5 triples until nationals last year, I thought this was a wonderful start to her season. Yes she was a little overscored but I do think the outcome was 100% correct. What am I missing?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^Scott's idea of helping the audience understand the scoring is to say, boy this new system sure is complicatted, every little thing you do is worth a tenth of a point, you pretty much have to be Einstein with a big computer to tell who skated well or poorly. He cannot in real life be as befuddled as he pretends to be on the air. This just makes viewers think that figure skating judging is some sort of arcane alchemy, which is a very misleading idea that is harmful to the sport.
    I was watching baseball with my husband and was floored by how coherent their announcers are. It is really only skating and gymnastics announcers that can't explain the scoring. It IS complicated but it is ALSO explainable. (My husband was in turn shocked by how useless figureskating commentators are.) At the very least they could easliy present a discussion on seaon bests for TES and PCS.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrgirl View Post
    I was watching baseball with my husband and was floored by how coherent their announcers are. It is really only skating and gymnastics announcers that can't explain the scoring. It IS complicated but it is ALSO explainable. (My husband was in turn shocked by how useless figureskating commentators are.) At the very least they could easliy present a discussion on seaon bests for TES and PCS.
    Great points. There's a lot of data now with IJS. When you watch basketball, baseball and football, there's a lot of time at the beginning of a competition spent on looking at past performance stats. There's also a lot of talk about "style of play" that isn't quite tangible but can explain reasons for success.

    For example, during the NCAA Championship game last year, commentators talked about how Louisville's strategy was about full-court press while U. of Michigan were a finesse team that knew how to handle the ball well. That's not a stat, but very useful information as you watch those teams play.

    It would have been beneficial to talk about that while Mao had a tendency to UR jumps sometimes or doesn't have a 3-3 that her skating skills, choreography, etc gives her considerable higher scores in PCS. Or talk about how Ashley struggled with spin levels last season, which is an area that Mao does.

    Instead they focus solely on one or two elements (i.e. 3-3 or 3A) so when they don't quite succeed, then people assume it's all over.

  14. #74
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    My husband has watched a lot of skating, starting in 1981, mostly as a captive viewer, but occasionally a performance really lights his fire.

    He loved Jason Brown's LP, even though it was flawed, and he knew Jason would not medal with it. He said he could watch Jason skate all day, and so can I.He spontaneously said, the sport of skating needs more of that. (I promise, I didn't prompt him at all.)

    He admitted to liking D&W's FD, too, but not nearly as much as their Giselle SD, which was his last year's fav program, and of which he said, if T&D did a Polka, that would have been it. (Of course, T&D are his all time skating favs, so he said T&D would have done it a bit better )

    He didn't get into any of the ladies' performances, but NBC didn't show Cesario.

    He thought Machida deserved to win, liked the program, but didn't go wild over it.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikki View Post
    Mao's FS posted by a fan who recorded the video in the arena.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5tR44Y-X9Y

    Love this video! You can see how much ice she covers with each stroke.
    Thank you for the video. Mao really improved her skating skills under Sato. And she wasn't terrible, either.
    This is an example of good skating skill can be improved.

    There's hope for the rest of them getting 5s and 6s on SS.

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