Do you agree with the Skating Lesson's views on Davis/White? | Golden Skate

Do you agree with the Skating Lesson's views on Davis/White?

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Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
While I understand how some could be turned off by the aggressively b!tchy nature of Dave Lease sometimes, I do think he's right when he voices his displeasure about Meryl and Charlie crumbling in the face of speaking out about something that is blatantly wrong. Ashley Wagner just said what everyone in the skating world thinks when asked about Russia's anti-gay laws...so why couldn't Meryl and Charlie grow a backbone and do the same? I know they're worried as all get out about winning the gold medal, but come on...I think if there is something horribly discriminatory going on, it's your responsibility as someone who has a platform to speak out about it. The Miss America answers Davis and White gave really do sound cowardly and completely contrived. Come on, Meryl and Charlie...be the people you know you're supposed to be!
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
They're skaters, not politicians. If they don't want to talk about Russia's anti-gay laws, that's their prerogative.
 

Whitneyskates

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
There's already a (lengthy) thread about this, but no, I don't agree with his remarks. They were ridiculous and immature. Neither Meryl nor Charlie, or anyone else for that matter, should feel that they have to speak on something they don't want to. Sometimes, people just don't to talk about something, and they shouldn't be made to feel guilty about that. Good for Ashley for speaking out, but it doesn't mean everyone has to. There's a time and place for such a discussion, and I, personally, don't think the media summit is it.

Come on, Meryl and Charlie...be the people you know you're supposed to be!
In other words, do what other people want so wannabe journalists won't criticize you.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
I found Davis/White's answer to be absolutely appalling. Whilst some skaters hide behind ignorance, their answer sounded like they knew exactly what was going on but chose not to get involved. It's because of self-serving and cowardly attitudes like this that human rights abuses and inequality in general are able to happen.

And 'The Olympics are not the right place to make a political statement' is just a laughable statement to make. Because standing next to your flag, singing your national anthem and all that jazz are not political at all. Please.
 
M

mylastduchess

Guest
I found Davis/White's answer to be absolutely appalling. Whilst some skaters hide behind ignorance, their answer sounded like they knew exactly what was going on but chose not to get involved. It's because of self-serving and cowardly attitudes like this that human rights abuses and inequality in general are able to happen.

And 'The Olympics are not the right place to make a political statement' is just a laughable statement to make. Because standing next to your flag, singing your national anthem and all that jazz are not political at all. Please.

That's because its a sporting event and not a political one!

It is wrong for Russia to put such a law in place but making athletes into politicians is the same thing.

Let the athletes do what they are supposed to and not make this Olympics be about gay rights (In ancient times city states would stop wars just for the Olympics why can't people now a days stop politicizing this event)

However I think Russia should never be awarded another Olympics again if this is their philosophy
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
I don't think I expressed myself as clear as I wanted to.

If Davis/White said that they didn't know enough details or that they didn't really follow politics or something along those lines, then I would have understood it.

But their answer sounded like they knew exactly what was going on but they chose not to care.

That's because its a sporting event and not a political one!

Sport is extremely political. :)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
So, are we supposed to go down a checklist of every skater and hope they give a satisfactory answer? What if Lease interviewed a Russian skater and asked them what they think about their laws?

It is their prerogative to not comment. As mentioned, skaters are athletes and not politicians and they should only comment or show support if they want to, not because they should feel compelled to. And I say this as somebody staunchly against the laws.

David Lease is a tool, and he's just finding a reason to hate on skaters. I'd be surprised if any skaters wanted to interview with him because he'd just rail on them afterwards if he didn't get the answers he wants. Just once, I would love for a skater he asked about the Sochi laws to jokingly say, "Well, obviously I don't find anything wrong with them", just to see him lose it.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
It's too bad that Lease is being this divisive about skaters, because the full-length interviews TSL has been doing, with the likes of Frank Carroll, Sandra Bezic, and Yuka Sato, have been true skating lessons, full of insight and enlightening detail. I'll continue to enjoy them. But it does no one any good, least of all the Russian victims of Putin's law, for Lease to yell at a skater in Michigan who didn't make the law, can't repeal it, can't protect anyone from it, and can't get the ISU or the IOC to change their policies about it.
 

Nigel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
It's too bad that Lease is being this divisive about skaters, because the full-length interviews TSL has been doing, with the likes of Frank Carroll, Sandra Bezic, and Yuka Sato, have been true skating lessons, full of insight and enlightening detail. I'll continue to enjoy them. But it does no one any good, least of all the Russian victims of Putin's law, for Lease to yell at a skater in Michigan who didn't make the law, can't repeal it, can't protect anyone from it, and can't get the ISU or the IOC to change their policies about it.

You also need to think about the fact the Davis/White have been substantially funded not only by USFS but also by the USOC over the years, and both groups had previously made their group statements about the human rights issues in Russia. Yes, perhaps Davks/White's answers were evasive, but they were following protocol. And, they have been a very politically correct team for years. In fact, I don't recall a misstep on their part, politically, ever. And, with dance being such a political event at the Olympics, I doubt they were going to voice their personal opinions with David Lease, or the media in Utah, and risk stirring the pot.

Kirk and Lease have a forum where they are able to promote their own views, under the guise of "journalism". I thought Kirk took a bold step forward when she first starting her journalistic endeavors, writing a thoughtful piece on her skating career and eating disorder. Lease has a lot of baggage to dispose of....all those years of blogging as Aunt Joyce .....not that he doesn't have a good understanding of the sports he follows, but there was so much vitriolic writing on his blog.....it takes a lot of work to dispel that past work. His track record of unfiltered candor or whatever you want to call it...he has a lot of work to do to build his reputation as a reputable journalist. I am waiting for them to put in the time and truly develop their journalistic talents. Much of what they present is still heavily tinged with rumors, snarking, editorials ...which is fine, for what they are currently doing. They intersperse some good solid interview work/questions/presentations with material that is 180 degrees from what they should be doing, IMO, to be taken as serious journalists. And, that has probably led to the lack of accreditation at the SLC Sr B event. I hope that they choose the higher road, really dig in and develop their skills, and distance themselves from the snarking, etc. it would be oh so refreshing to see a young team of journalists cover the sport with appropriate humor, an understanding of the nuances of the sport, back story interviews, and bring a new level of excitement for a sport that combines artistry and athleticism. But until then, they have some work to do to build credibility.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
While I understand how some could be turned off by the aggressively b!tchy nature of Dave Lease sometimes, I do think he's right when he voices his displeasure about Meryl and Charlie crumbling in the face of speaking out about something that is blatantly wrong. Ashley Wagner just said what everyone in the skating world thinks when asked about Russia's anti-gay laws...so why couldn't Meryl and Charlie grow a backbone and do the same? I know they're worried as all get out about winning the gold medal, but come on...I think if there is something horribly discriminatory going on, it's your responsibility as someone who has a platform to speak out about it. The Miss America answers Davis and White gave really do sound cowardly and completely contrived. Come on, Meryl and Charlie...be the people you know you're supposed to be!

Do they have the right to say and do whatever they want?!:rolleye: I thought it was a dead horse already. A new wave of attacking on Davis and White?!
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Do they have the right to say and do whatever they want?!:rolleye: I thought it was a dead horse already. A new wave of attacking on Davis and White?!

Apparently. White is a political science major and lists his favorite shows as The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, so it's a fair guess that he is a liberal/progressive in his political thinking. However, as a team D&W have always avoided political statements. Should they have had a better response to this question - yes, but really to castigate them for not condemning outwardly the Russian LGBT law tells more about those complaining about this issue. Why must they comment? What do V&M, or the Italians, or the French ice dancers say about this issue? Are they even asked, or is it only the Americans who are held to some kind of political standard?
 

Scrufflet

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
^^ Interesting points! I noticed that Patrick Chan stated that he was focusing on his job rather than making a statement and I'm not sure that he has been receiving the fire that D/W have been getting. Don't think it's just the Americans who are catching heat. I think every skater gets caught sometime by "ambush journalism" and D/W just happened to get caught this time. Kudos to Ashley for what she said and it would be nice if more did the same.
I wonder if skaters from other countries have been put on the spot over this issue to the same degree (Japanese, European or Russian). Anyone know?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The underlying assumption here is that figure skaters automatically have a special obligation to wield the cudgel for gay rights. At the Beijing Summer Olympics politicians and heads of state took the opportunity to rail about Tibetan independence, but no one expected the athletes to take a stand on that human rights issue.

Lease charges that Charlie flat out lied when he said that "We (Meryl and he) had not discussed the issue very much between them," preferring to concentrate on their preparation as athletes. To Lease,it cannot possibly be true that someone in figure skating is not afire on this issue. On the contrary, to me it seems quite normal if Meryl and Charlie said to each other, let's get this Olympic gold medal thing out of the way first -- we've got the rest of our lives to stand ip for worthy causes.

By the way, Dave Lease loves Davis and White's skating. It is fans of Virtue and Moir who should have a bone to pick with him. ;)
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
It's too bad that Lease is being this divisive about skaters, because the full-length interviews TSL has been doing, with the likes of Frank Carroll, Sandra Bezic, and Yuka Sato, have been true skating lessons, full of insight and enlightening detail. I'll continue to enjoy them. But it does no one any good, least of all the Russian victims of Putin's law, for Lease to yell at a skater in Michigan who didn't make the law, can't repeal it, can't protect anyone from it, and can't get the ISU or the IOC to change their policies about it.

:clap:

I can't stand to watch the interviews, though. I don't like his tone or his facial expressions. And I can't stand their non interview segments. It's very disappointing. It started out as a wonderful thing.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
While I understand how some could be turned off by the aggressively b!tchy nature of Dave Lease sometimes, I do think he's right when he voices his displeasure about Meryl and Charlie crumbling in the face of speaking out about something that is blatantly wrong. Ashley Wagner just said what everyone in the skating world thinks when asked about Russia's anti-gay laws...so why couldn't Meryl and Charlie grow a backbone and do the same? I know they're worried as all get out about winning the gold medal, but come on...I think if there is something horribly discriminatory going on, it's your responsibility as someone who has a platform to speak out about it. The Miss America answers Davis and White gave really do sound cowardly and completely contrived. Come on, Meryl and Charlie...be the people you know you're supposed to be!

so ? they have their own perspective and their own opinion
can't feed anyone with the same words you know, so deal with it !
 

zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
^^ Interesting points! I noticed that Patrick Chan stated that he was focusing on his job rather than making a statement and I'm not sure that he has been receiving the fire that D/W have been getting. Don't think it's just the Americans who are catching heat. I think every skater gets caught sometime by "ambush journalism" and D/W just happened to get caught this time. Kudos to Ashley for what she said and it would be nice if more did the same.
I wonder if skaters from other countries have been put on the spot over this issue to the same degree (Japanese, European or Russian). Anyone know?

First of all, it isn't ambush journalism... they KNEW the question was coming, it's been one of the things that's been asked many skaters and coaches this summer, by many journalists. If they didn't think they'd get asked the question... well, that's absurdly naive. Also, Dave and Jenny have been interviewing mostly American skaters. They've been asking most anyone they've interviewed the question, and some have given good answers (Buttle) and some have given terrible ones (Scott), but to say that this is ambush journalism is just, wrong.

However, I agree, I would LOVE to hear what Russian skaters/coaches/etc. have to say about that law.

so ? they have their own perspective and their own opinion
can't feed anyone with the same words you know, so deal with it !

They can have their own perspective, for sure. However, their answer seems as though they either 1) didn't care or 2) didn't care to think about it enough to give an eloquent response, which, either way, is bad.


As a gay man, and a former athlete, it comes down to this (at least for me): I will appreciate if you say you're against it and why, for sure. However, I can ALSO appreciate if you say you haven't thought about it much because you're focusing on what you need to do to compete your best this year, or something to that effect. I would even appreciate (though I wouldn't really like) someone saying that, while they may have opinions on the law, those are immaterial and private. However, the worst possible answer is an inarticulate one. It's media training 101, and if you think Davis/White haven't had media training, well, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Dave may have went over the top in his attack, but the base of the attack was correct. She gave a dumb answer.
 

TelmoFe

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
I agree with David. They aren't politicians, but they are humans, people and stars... Or... Not so much, because they don't put in this position, wish could be benefic for the sport and for them, like Wagner is doing, with her figure skating, her personality and she shows that... Michelle Kwan old times go back, please.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
As someone else has stated, they have been supported ($$) by USFS and USOC substantially, so most likely have been cautioned against giving a response in contrary to the offical responses both groups have already given. Also, why should they have to come out with a stance for/against something political? They are skaters, not diplomats or politicians, and therefore should not HAVE TO take a stance on this publically. They don't live in Russia, they will be competing there, and therefore, really, CAN give a non-commital response. Granted, it could have been articulated better, but why are they being castigated for not taking a bold public stance? :disapp: :rolleye:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
As someone else has stated, they have been supported ($$) by USFS and USOC substantially, so most likely have been cautioned against giving a response in contrary to the offical responses both groups have already given. Also, why should they have to come out with a stance for/against something political? They are skaters, not diplomats or politicians, and therefore should not HAVE TO take a stance on this publically. They don't live in Russia, they will be competing there, and therefore, really, CAN give a non-commital response. Granted, it could have been articulated better, but why are they being castigated for not taking a bold public stance? :disapp: :rolleye:

ageed, Athletes need to be neutral, they are not politicians unless they want the attention seeking worn out tac ticks of Wagner for the sake of fame and endorsements. Athletes focus is to win not to make some political statements.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Surely I can't be the only person who is dumbfounded that we are still talking about this.

Meryl and Charlie can say or not say whatever they want. AI am honestly stunned that so many people care. It's not like one of them killed an infant in cold blood on national TV and laughed maniacally while they did it.

My perspective on this (which I said in the other looooong looooong thread about this identical topic) is this:

1. They are athletes. If that is all they want to be, that is okay in my book. They have not asked to be political or celebrity figures. They are not out there hogging the limelight. They have only 'asked' for this attention in that they have worked for two decades to perfect their skating.

2. While I do think that 'celebrities' (athlete or otherwise) should be free to champion causes if they want to, I don't think any of them should be forced to champion a cause they don't want to, whatever they think about it 'in their hearts' or whatever. It should be their choice what causes to speak out for or against.

3. Essentially, what they said was 'I don't want to talk about this'. They had every right to feel that way.

4. However, they did also say they hadn't discussed it between themselves. Some people think that was a lie or a way to tactfully say ' we don't want to talk about this'. While that may be true, both have said they do not hang out much outside the rink. The rink, where they are, you know, practicing skating, not necessarily shooting the breeze about gay rights. While I agree they probably know one another's basic stance on the issue, it is very possible, believe it or not, that they did not feel they had talked about it enough together to comment, because whatever one of them says, whether they like it or not, reflects on the other one. That is a lot of responsibility, to have your comments reflect on someone else and not have thoroughly discussed it beforehand. If you don't believe that, you have never been in a comparable situation.

5. Either way, they are one of the top two dance teams out there right now. I respect their skating and think it is the very best in the world. Whatever they say or don't say, ever, that is the essence of D/W to me- their skating.
 
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