Random Figure Skating Questions

I♥Yuna;889192 said:

I have a lot of stupid questions Here's one: in the component description for Skating skills, the first criterion is "balance, rhythmic knee action, and precision of foot placement"

My question is, are they talking about crossovers (the next criterion talks speciically about generating speed using rhythm) or are they talking about any kind of skating steps, turns, etc??

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All kinds of skating steps and turns. You can generate speed using rhythm in most steps, and turns as well -- it's just that some ways are harder than others.

Also, does skating skills refer specifically to everything done that involves the use of the blade? Obviously the criteria talks about things that are necessarily related like balance and footplacement, but the essence of this component is bladework, yes or no?

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Yes. Or at least, everything about the blade gliding on the ice. There are a few things you could do with the blades that don't involve gliding on the ice, but purists would probably say "that isn't really skating." Some of them might be valued in other parts of the scoring, though.

Thank you I have some more questions if you can help:


My question is, what is a "steady run to the blade"? Does it refer to the quality of the blade travelling across the ice (seemingly frictionless contact with the ice as it travels along, and bad run to the blade would be when the blade has a stop and start kind of motion, like on jump exits sometimes if their weight is not balanced over it)?

And, does this criterion also apply universally, like the first one (is flow/glide something you should have during all kinds of steps and turns, or does it only apply to travelling blade positions that are fixed/static like jump entrances, exits, spread eagles, spirals, death spirals, balancing lifts in dance, etc.)?

The reason I ask is because the next criterion sounds a lot like this one, but without the mention of "lean" and "run":


These two, plus that first one, are the ones that confuse me -- the other criteria are more distinct and understandable (varied use of speed and acceleration, multi-directional skating, mastery of one foot skating).

I♥Yuna;889303 said:

Thank you I have some more questions if you can help:

Flow and effortless glide
Rhythm, strength, clean strokes, and an efficient use of lean create a steady run to the
blade and an ease of transfer of weight resulting in seemingly effortless power and
acceleration. ​

My question is, what is a "steady run to the blade"? Does it refer to the quality of the blade travelling across the ice (seemingly frictionless contact with the ice as it travels along, and bad run to the blade would be when the blade has a stop and start kind of motion, like on jump exits sometimes if their weight is not balanced over it)?

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The ISU program components videos on Balance, Flow, and Sureness may shed some light for you.

And, does this criterion also apply universally, like the first one (is flow/glide something you should have during all kinds of steps and turns, or does it only apply to travelling blade positions that are fixed/static like jump entrances, exits, spread eagles, spirals, death spirals, balancing lifts in dance, etc.)?

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I'd say it applies to all turns and steps, with a few exceptions like toe steps that intentionally break up the flow for choreographic effect. (But toe steps are an example of what I mentioned above, that purists would say is not really skating.)

The reason I ask is because the next criterion sounds a lot like this one, but without the mention of "lean" and "run":

Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps, and turns
The skater should demonstrate clean and controlled curves, deep edges, and steps. ​

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I'd say that flow and cleanness/sureness of edges and deep edges often go together. But it is possible to skate on deep curves with less security (sureness), maybe wobbling slightly throughout or with some noticeable changes in the edge shape or even rocking onto flats or the opposite edge. So that would be bad sureness, despite deep edges.

It's also possible to push hard with each stroke, start a deep edge with good speed, but lose speed as it progresses, and then have to gain speed again with the next push, over and over again. So even though the average speed might be decent, the edges might be deep -- the start-and-stop quality would not demonstrate continuous flow.

At lower levels, you often find skaters scratching with their toepicks on back crossovers. That disrupts the flow and the cleanness.

Skaters might also scratch their toepicks on the back edge right as they exit a turn (or turning step like a mohawk or choctaw) from forward to backward. That would make the turn not "clean."

Turns can also be skidded or scraped. Not clean or sure.

Sometimes skaters change edge immediately before or after a bracket, counter, rocker, or choctaw, turning them into threes or mohawks -- a similar mistake to changing edge before a lutz or flip. That would make those turns not clean or sure.

Some other steps (e.g., cross rolls) might be executed by putting the free foot down on a flat or wrong edge and then rocking onto the correct edge after the blade is on the ice. So that step would not have been executed cleanly.

It's possible to have little edge changes in and out of turns and steps, or to have wobbles or flats on the edges, without really disrupting the continuous glide (flow) on the ice. So flow and sureness don't always go together -- they're not exactly the same thing.

Yay, I found the right thread! My question be stupider than most, but it is nagging at me.

In Ice Dancing, many years ago, there was a routine, I can't remember if it was competition or exhibition, which started out with one partner kind of lying on the ice (resembling a dead bunny or something) and the other partner scampering around for a while, and then the dead-ish partner came to life and they started dancing.

This caused a change in rules or preferences or whatever, wherein the judges channeled their inner Len and said, we don't like those bits at the beginning, just start your routine out by dancing! No more dead forest animals.

Who was this, and please tell me there is a video of it online somewhere!

Is it really critical to start early in figure skating? I've read interviews and it seems that most of the skaters start skating before 7. Is there any elite skaters who started much later? Like in teens?

And are there any skaters who switched from other sports outside skating and hockey to figure skating? I'm curious if there are sports that would make easier to learn figure skating.

gourry said:

Is it really critical to start early in figure skating? I've read interviews and it seems that most of the skaters start skating before 7. Is there any elite skaters who started much later? Like in teens?

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Very few.

Johnny Weir started shortly before or after turning 12, which is quite late among those who reach elite levels.

Alexei Mishin started at 15.

gkelly said:

Very few.

Johnny Weir started shortly before or after turning 12, which is quite late among those who reach elite levels.

Alexei Mishin started at 15.

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This, though I'd say the 'magic age' to have started by is usually 8, not 7. I can think of several skaters off the top of my head who started at age 8. It is possible but very rare to start after this and progress to an elite level- the odds are enormously against it.

gourry said:

Is it really critical to start early in figure skating? I've read interviews and it seems that most of the skaters start skating before 7. Is there any elite skaters who started much later? Like in teens?

And are there any skaters who switched from other sports outside skating and hockey to figure skating? I'm curious if there are sports that would make easier to learn figure skating.

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Jason Brown did gymnastics concurrently with skating, I believe. I don't recall when he ended up doing skating exclusively. I also remember reading somewhere he also played soccer at some point? Though I can't remember where I read that....it could just be my imagination...

ETA: Found it. Not the same article, but points out that he played other sports ALONG with skating:

http://highlandpark.suntimes.com/sports/jason-HPN-02062014:article

What Brown hopes will be a career spanning three Olympic Games got its start when he was 3½. His mother and father, Marla and Steve Brown, signed him up for skating and many other sports through the Park District of Highland Park and other places around town.

“I did all the school sports,” Brown said. “I was in travel soccer through eighth grade. I was in a baseball league in fifth grade. My parents gave me the opportunity to do what I wanted to do.”

One of those things was going to camp at the Olin Sang Ruby Institute in Wisconsin each summer. Sports, though not skating, were part of the agenda there.

But it was three weeks of camp when he was 13 that helped him concentrate on the sport that would take him to the world stage.

Not long after his time at camp, his skating prowess began to grow and Brown was selected to represent the United States in an international competition in Canada.

“I didn’t do well,” Brown said. “It was the first time I realized what it was going to take to be as good as I could be.”

That year was his last summer of camp and the following school year was the end of travel soccer.

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So I guess he put his focus solely on skating when he was 13-14 though obviously he started skating at a young age.

Thanks gkelly, tulosai, Mrs. P!

Some members have commented that Adelina has better "attack" than other skaters. I get what they mean and I tend to agree, but does "attack" translate to anything in the program components? SS makes mention of "Varied use of power/energy..." is that the same as "attack" or do you think attack has more to do with the interpretation component, or performance/execution (fulfilling criteria like "physial involvement", "projection", "style/personality"??

Also, if not, do you think it should be? And if so, in which component?

My understanding of "attack" would be that it would be rewarded primarily under Performance/Execution, especially the "physical involvement" criterion.

But yes, the other criteria you mention could also be affected.

gkelly said:

My understanding of "attack" would be that it would be rewarded primarily under Performance/Execution, especially the "physical involvement" criterion.

But yes, the other criteria you mention could also be affected.

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Okay I'll keep this mind... also, I was thinking it could be something that's supposed to factor into GoE instead, because the technical elements are really all there is to "attack" in a program (so a matter of execution in the TES, rather than PCS).

I've been so busy with school that I haven't been on this forum in about a month! So here's my silly question: Did Adelina drop out of Worlds? I ask because Wikipedia lists Julia and Anna as representatives...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_World_Figure_Skating_Championships

Sochi_2014 said:

I've been so busy with school that I haven't been on this forum in about a month! So here's my silly question: Did Adelina drop out of Worlds? I ask because Wikipedia lists Julia and Anna as representatives...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_World_Figure_Skating_Championships

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Welcome back, Sochi_2014!

Yes, Adelina is not going to Worlds.

Mrs. P said:

Welcome back, Sochi_2014!

Yes, Adelina is not going to Worlds.

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How come?

Sochi_2014 said:

How come?

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No official reason, but post-Sochi fatigue, perhaps? She was touring a lot in the weeks following the Olympics.

Mrs. P said:

No official reason, but post-Sochi fatigue, perhaps? She was touring a lot in the weeks following the Olympics.

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From what I can tell from her interviews (after google translate has mangled them into "English")... she had every intention of going to world's, but the Russian skating federation chose not to send her?

eg. Try running this one through google translate

Hello, I hope you guys help me with some of my really dumb questions about PCS.

Like I don't get why some people have extremely high PCS, while some others have low PCS eventhough they are more fun to watch.

For example, I can understand why PChan always get high PCS because his skating is so smooth and he moves on the ice like water. I can get it why people say PChan's skating skills are superb.:yay:

I can see when people say someone's skating skills are not good, such as Denis Ten. I like him, but his moves always seem to be awkward to me.

But some other skaters, for example, like Daisuke. I think he also skates well, then why his PCS always seem to be so slow even though his performances were so good? so his lines and postures, ice coverage are not enough or something? If so then who are the ones to judges those components in the program? Like slow motion or something?

And another example, Yuzuru. The kid is young, so I can understand that he need to improve a lot. And his skating is not as smooth as PChan. Well, he is young so I think it's okay, he has time to work on it. But some people say the kid's skating skills are bad so I am confused. He might not be as good as PChan and Dai, because he is young. But to say his skating skills are bad? Is that too harsh?

Well, I hate to say it, but for the most part, PCS is a game of favorites...

Sochi_2014 said:

Well, I hate to say it, but for the most part, PCS is a game of favorites...

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So, does that mean all of the explanation below could be rigged? Like all of these reasons below are just...for nothing? Because personally I think, if all of these points below are judged like TES, then it would take days to score a skater.

The program components score (PCS) are:
Skating skills (SS) reward use of edges and turns, flow over the ice surface, speed and acceleration, ice coverage, clean and controlled curves, multi-directional skating, and mastery of one-foot skating (no overuse of skating on two feet).
Transitions (TR)
Performance/Execution (PE)
Choreography (CH)
Interpretation (IN)

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