Random Figure Skating Questions

Mathman said:

Here is what Alissa said in a "kid's Questions" feature in 2005.

http://www.usfsa.org/Magazine.asp?id=57&issue=32361

A "Prussian" name ought to mean German, but Prussia contained a sizable Polish minority population throughout its history.

I am pretty sure Alissa pronounces her name "Sizz-ney" (rhymes with Disney ).

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Thank you Mathman.

And that is why they had so many problems re-drawing the borders after the First World War. Because the towns were mainly inhabited by Germans, and the surrounding countryside was mainly inhabited by Poles.

Nosiness just got the better of me, and I just went onto the ISU Bios to see whereabouts the Polish skaters are from. Now, so that I did not get bogged down, I only did Singles skaters.

Nearly all of them are from areas that used to be in the Kingdom of Prussia! Most of them are from Auschwitz/Oswiecim, in Upper Silesia. But, there are a few from other parts of Prussia, including:

Robert GRZEGORCZYK and Iwona SADOWSKA from Danzig/Gdansk (West Prussia);
Weronika KASPRZAK from Stettin/Szczecin (East Pomerania);
Elzbieta GABRYSZAK, Agnieszka REJMENT and Sabina WOJTALA from other towns in Upper Silesia.

[Apologies if anybody is offended by me putting the German names first. But, it was always the tradition that the British used the German names rather than the Polish names... probably because they were easier to say and spell! (And also probably because our Royal Family is German...)]

While we are on the subject, I have often wondered - does anybody know of any skaters that are from East Prussia?

[The north of the state (including the capital, Königsberg/Kaliningrad) became Russian after WW2, while the south of the state (including Allenstein/Olsztyn) became Polish].

And just as a piece of useless information, a few years ago I bought a flag of the Kingdom of Prussia on eBay from somebody in Arizona!

I just think it is the most beautiful flag ever! Like, look at all the intricate details on the eagle. Absolutely beautiful.

CaroLiza_fan

I have also a stupid question!

In the last two seasons, Yuna always performed a level 3 layback in her short and long. However, wouldn't be better for her to attempt a different spin in her long? She could do two combination spins and a flying combo spin and she could have all level 4 spins. Why she didn't do this?

Why doesn't Ashley get credit for her 3F-3T ?

Alchamei said:

In the last two seasons, Yuna always performed a level 3 layback in her short and long. However, wouldn't be better for her to attempt a different spin in her long? She could do two combination spins and a flying combo spin and she could have all level 4 spins. Why she didn't do this?

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You have to have one spin in one position in the free skate. Any type of position, flying entry optional.

So it would be possible to maximize base values with two combination spins with change of foot (one with flying entry, one without) and a flying camel or flying sit, if all of the above can reach level 4.

Then the question comes down to whether these spins will consistently earn higher GOE than a level 3 layback. It may not be worth raising the base values if the quality and GOEs will suffer.

gkelly said:

Offhand, the only team I can remember attempting side-by-side triple loops was Natalie Vlandis and Jered Guzman in the 1990s, but I can't remember them succeeding.

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Thanks gkelly! I'd never heard of that team, but it was nice to see an example of a loop attempt.

mao_da_artist said:

Why doesn't Ashley get credit for her 3F-3T ?

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idk if you're joking or not but I'll answer. She under-rotates them or the tech is really stingy. But it's mostly the former now...

Didn't Yamaguchi & Galindo do side by side triple flips? I seem to remember that?

Not sure if it's been covered elsewhere but why is the back scratch spin the fastest in-air rotation position for jumps? There's several parts to this question:

1. Why the back scratch and not the (regular) scratch? Is this purely to prepare for the landing position? But if so, then why do skaters talk about bring the weight over the correct part of the hip etc. in the air? (I've never understood what that means, because the skater is in the air and hence the weight isn't on anything per se -- the skater is basically on a ballistic trajectory, not putting their weight on something that's pushing them back (ignoring air resistance). Does it mean to have the right side of the hip higher than the left side or vice versa or something?)
2. My understanding is that for spins, the scratch position is faster because it places the foot on the ice closer to the axis of rotation. Thus, the foot on the ice traces a smaller circle (correct me if I'm wrong), so there's less torque slowing down the skater. The free foot being crossed over the foot on the ice helps with bringing the axis of rotation closer to the foot on the ice. However, it would seem like this doesn't apply in the air, since the axis of rotation in the air just depends on how the skater took off and the air position, but it doesn't need to be closer to a particular foot. Also, there's no torque slowing down the skater (ignoring air resistance).
3. At an intuitive level, it would seem to me like the scratch position actually moves more of the skater's leg mass away from the axis of rotation. Consider two pencils next to each other. Other than placing them end-to-end, the smallest moment of inertia of their combined shape would be if they were touching and parallel to each other. If there's an angle between them, then the ends are going to stick out away from the axis of rotation increasing the moment of inertia. Now, it's true that the free leg wraps around the landing leg, but the leg is made up of bones which are approximately straight. Why doesn't this principle apply to the in-air position? (Or possibly, some other principle predominates.)

I wonder if there has ever been experiments with quantitatively determining the human body position that rotates the most quickly. (My intuitive experiment setup would be to use the Vomit Comet or space station and have someone spin around in different positions and measure how quickly they're rotating.)

I think I can get this started, at least

Weight is always considered to be located at the center of mass in any ballastic trajectory problem.

For the skater's center of mass to be "over" something, it would mean that a line drawn through the center of mass and through the point it is supposed to be "over", would be perpendicular to the plane of the ice.

And of course, that the center of mass is further from the plane of the ice, rather than closer...


Finally, yes, the body position that yields the smallest rotational moment of Inertia about the axis of rotation, with the smallest moments of rotational inertia about axes perpendicular to the axis of rotation, should yield the fastest and most stable rotation.

Also remember that the skater needs to land on one foot -- the right foot for counterclockwise jumpers -- so the air position that anticipates that landing is better than one with comparable speed of rotation with the weight centered over the other foot or between the two.

^^^^^^
This, hence over the landing leg hip joint.

Afair, Craig Buntin's new program Veriskate is supposed to be better than Dartfish for this sort of simulation (as well as measuring how fast a skater was going and how many feet he travelled in a step sequence.

dorispulaski said:

...
Afair, Craig Buntin's new program Verisign is supposed to be better than Dartfish for this sort of simulation (as well as measuring how fast a skater was going and how many feet he travelled in a step sequence.

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BTW, Pj Kwong has a new podcast with Craig Buntin.

I haven't listened to it yet, but I imagine that his VeriSkate software is one of the topics.

I will be interested to listen to it.

I've always wondered. The spotlight (in ice shows) follows the skaters or the skaters follow the sport light?

Spotlights follow the performer.

gkelly said:

Spotlights follow the performer.

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Then one more stupid question. Is there anyone control the spotlights... or it's automatically programmed by some softwares? Because I bet if it were me who have to control the spotlights manually I would go crazy. It's harder than video games for sure. :

Meoima said:

Then one more stupid question. Is there anyone control the spotlights... or it's automatically set up by some programs? Because I bet if it were me who have to control the spotlights manually I would be crazy. It's harder than video games for sure. :

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I've run the spotlights at local skate shows. It's hard to keep up with the really fast ones who turn all over the place

Dr. Jenn said:

After watching the pairs' event today at Skate Canada, I started wondering about side-by-side jumps: Has any pair ever done SBS triple loops? I can't recall ever seeing SBS loops (too hard to synchronize, maybe?), but I think I've seen every other triple attempted (save for 3A, of course). Thanks in advance!

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Shelby Lyons and Brian Wells

Sam-Skwantch said:

I've run the spotlights at local skate shows. It's hard to keep up with the really fast ones who turn all over the place

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oh my... so it's manual work!!! You are wonderful. I can't image myself doing that. Some skaters are really fast. How can they move the spotlight so smoothly!!

LiamForeman said:

Shelby Lyons and Brian Wells

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Great - Thanks! I found this video that included the jumps (He fell), in case anyone else wanted to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCtRR2mzn70

When I was trying to find a video where they did the loops, I happened upon this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0deObUm0FU
I was really surprised to see their heights and weights listed (along with ages, etc.) before they performed!