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Thread: Who should consider changing coaches and/or choreographers?

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    Medalist Weathergal's Avatar
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    Who should consider changing coaches and/or choreographers?

    I know we still have the World Team Trophy so the season isn't over quite yet, but I'm curious what skaters people think would benefit from a change of coach and/or choreographer and why.

    I certainly don't think that making that change is always the solution, but there are times when I it might be...

    My picks:
    The Shibutanis —I have felt for the past few seasons that Zoueva has taken them as far as she can, especially now that Shpilband isn't in the picture. I think they're talented and hard working, but they've stalled in the standings. Perhaps she doesn't know how to create programs for brother/sister teams, perhaps she's not the best technical coach...not sure. I still think their exhibition program this year was one of the best programs I've ever seen them perform. Does anyone know who created it? Wonder if it could somehow be turned into a competition FD... If they do make a move, who should they go to? Dubreil/Lauzon? I'd love to see what they could do with a new coach and choreographer.

    Sergei Voronov — I thought his SP to Dance Macabre was good, but his long program might have contained the most disjointed mix of music cuts ever! His ISU bio lists Zhulin as his choreographer—did he really create that LP? I think the move to Eteri's group for coaching was a good one, but I'd like to see him with a different choreographer.

    Polina Edmunds —
    I like her and think she has potential but fear having her mom as one of her coaches (not to mention costumers) could be holding her back, assuming her mom is the one calling the shots. I honestly don't know enough about her other coach, David Glynn, to say anything about him. I didn't totally hate her LP music or costume, but I think something more mature and complimentary is needed to help move her forward. I really hope she can find music and costuming that helps her find that delicate balance of being true to herself while also presenting her in the best light.

    More important than that though is that I question where her coaching staff is on the 3F edge business. In her interviews, she says she knows she's going to get edge calls but keeps it because it fits with the choreography. I assume she's working on correcting it, but she makes it sound like she's keeping it because she wants to and that's that. Her team surrounding her needs better strategy. I hope they make some changes so Polina can reach her potential.
    Last edited by Weathergal; Today at 10:55 AM.

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    Ashley Wagner I know she and Adam are very good friends, but I hope she doesn't get him to help with her choreography again; her short program which he did was really dull and bland compared to her free.

    Gracie Gold Something needs to change. I think most people say she needs a different style of program & that maybe she should work with people other than Lori Nichol, but I think her programs are very intricate and work very well when she manages to do a clean performance. However it seems that for what ever reason she's not approaching competition with the right mindset (this was true even before her injury) so I think something more fundamental needs to move in her coaching set up.

    Agreed on the Shibutanis, Marina doesn't know what to do with them, and I don't think she really cares any more. She's too invested in her blue eyed Russians - after Worlds I haven't seen any comments in the media from her about the Shibs, only about what she's been doing with Nikita & Victoria, which absolutely astounds me, considering they had their best finish in 4 years! That said, the Shibs do seem to be developing a good relationship with Massimo Scali, and if he was perhaps a little more experienced they should just work with him as their main coach.

    Paul/Islam also need some changes, although I'm not sure what; they skated two very good programs but were completely dumped :(

    I'd like Ilinykh/Zhiganshin to just think really carefully about what their next move is. It's obvious that Kustarova has created a positive and supportive coaching environment for them, and I don't want them to ruin that. But she has never been the strongest choreographer, and even when her teams have invited outside people to work with them the results have been less than inspiring. The free dance was everything I didn't want when I heard they would train with her, it's old fashioned, over dramatic and sloppy. I think I/Z are going to be a team that can carry off a lot of different styles, but the choreography has to be tight, maybe even character driven rather than just some nebulous drama faces & fist clenching set to angsty music. I hope that for their free dance they work as they did on their SD this year with someone with a pure dance background: it will give them more discipline in their movement and more focus for the program.

    One person I absolutely do not want to move is Florent Amodio. He's been all over the place since Morozov abandoned him in 2013, 3 coaches in just over a year! Finally he seems to have found a good fit and positive environment in Paris and it really came through in his performance this week. I hope he can keep it going next year and maybe make it back onto the European podium

    And I'm always hoping for other ice dance teams to move to Platov, he does such great work & it seems so under appreciated.
    Last edited by uhh; Today at 11:19 AM.

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Gracie Gold and Anna Pogorilaya

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    Gracie Gold should switch coaches. I personally don't think Frank Carroll has done anything to improve her, apart from a little finessing. For the most part, this season's Gracie was stifled, plagued with inconsistencies and was made to be somewhat of a wax figure of what Carroll thinks she 'should' be. Also Lori is NOT the choreographer for her. Maybe somebody like Rohene Ward can tap into Gracie's showier, brassier side.

    Tuktamysheva SHOULD seek the help of a good choreographer. Hell, even Tarasova or Zoueva would do if Mishin won't let her go stateside.

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    Anna Pogorilaya. For her own mental good.

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    Gracie Gold for me. Her jumps were very high in junior level.But now they have much less height. I think she is struggling because of it. At least she should consider finding jump coach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weathergal View Post
    I still think their exhibition program this year was one of the best programs I've ever seen them perform. Does anyone know who created it? Wonder if it could somehow be turned into a competition FD... If they do make a move, who should they go to? Dubreil/Lauzon? I'd love to see what they could do with a new coach and choreographer.
    Peter Tchernyshev.
    Quote Originally Posted by uhh View Post
    I'd like Ilinykh/Zhiganshin to just think really carefully about what their next move is. It's obvious that Kustarova has created a positive and supportive coaching environment for them, and I don't want them to ruin that. But she has never been the strongest choreographer, and even when her teams have invited outside people to work with them the results have been less than inspiring. The free dance was everything I didn't want when I heard they would train with her, it's old fashioned, over dramatic and sloppy. I think I/Z are going to be a team that can carry off a lot of different styles, but the choreography has to be tight, maybe even character driven rather than just some nebulous drama faces & fist clenching set to angsty music. I hope that for their free dance they work as they did on their SD this year with someone with a pure dance background: it will give them more discipline in their movement and more focus for the program.

    And I'm always hoping for other ice dance teams to move to Platov, he does such great work & it seems so under appreciated.
    I'm second to Ilinykh/Zhiganshin. Kustarova might be good coach for juniors and new teams, but she didn't understand how judges give points to top skaters. For example Twizzles needs 3 diffierent feature to get level4 and after that, you should play for GOE. Kustarova just adds and adds unnecessary features and rotations, they never gain anything and losing GOE. For example why they are changing rotations on same foot between first two set? Just doing three set is enough for level4. Transitions between twizzles looks labored and thats effect final GOE. Look at Bobrova/Soloviev's twizzles from 2010-2011 she did this to them too. Igor is genius. He found he can put crossovers between every turn on step sequences. Chock/Bates's edges are very often not deep, there is so much two foot work but they got level4 while Ilinykh/Zhiganshin tries to connect those turn each other on deep edges. Totally unnecessary...
    Last edited by elif; Today at 11:41 AM.

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    @Weathergal
    I don't think that Polina Edmunds should change anything.
    She's a strong competitor, she's grown much this year and is still doing very well, that's all positive. And until that pink costume she was wearing in her free this year her packaging was very good. Rudy Galindo is her choreographer, he's working with her on a weekly basis as far as I know and I think he did a fine job on her free, the music is light and pleasing, matching her skating perfectly. Watch the program again and try to ignore the costume (I know it's difficult), it's really very good.

    And yes, as mentioned above, Anna Pogorilaya should switch to another coach. I'd like to see her in a warmer enviroment, but I guess it's hard with all the competition in Russia. Does Anna Tsareva coach many other high level students? Maybe Anna needs someone who can give her full attention.

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    Custom Title andromache's Avatar
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    Tuktamysheva has the technical goods (obviously ) but I think excellent choreography and someone to mentor her to help her interpret the music could make her much more memorable and difficult to beat. I agree with the Tarasova suggestion, since it seems unlikely that she will be able to work with someone outside of Russia.

    Radionova needs to find her Akiko Suzuki. By this I mean someone who can help her improve her movement and posture on the ice like Akiko has been doing for Rika Hongo. Radionova has the performance attitude down, but she lacks sophistication and her shoulders really need some improvement. Akiko has helped Rika in these areas, and I hope Radionova finds someone who can help her too.

    I'm not sure about Gracie. Would another coach be able to help her mentally? I would think that with all of Frank's experience he knows how to deal with different types of skaters and their inconsistency issues. I just don't think changing coaches will solve her problems. I'd like to see her working with a new choreographer though for programs that Gracie can connect better with.

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    I think Frank is good for Gracie but I would like to see another choreographer. Definitely the Shibutanis. When you see how beautifully they skated their exhibition you know they have the talent. I don't think Zoueva has done them any favors. I know many say they don't succeed because they're siblings but I think that's a cop out. They need better coaching and much better choreo for their competition programs. Polina. Polina. Polina. She's not a little girl anymore and shouldn't be packaged as if she was still in Novice. She has uber talent and ability and it needs to be showcased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    I'm second to Ilinykh/Zhiganshin. Kustarova might be good coach for juniors and new teams, but she didn't understand how judges give points to top skaters. For example Twizzles needs 3 diffierent feature to get level4 and after that, you should play for GOE. Kustarova just adds and adds unnecessary features and rotations, they never gain anything and losing GOE. For example why they are changing rotations on same foot between first two set? Just doing three set is enough for level4. Transitions between twizzles looks labored and thats effect final GOE. Look at Bobrova/Soloviev's twizzles from 2010-2011 she did this to them too. Igor is genius. He found he can put crossovers between every turn on step sequences. Chock/Bates's edges are very often not deep, there is so much two foot work but they got level4 while Ilinykh/Zhiganshin tries to connect those turn each other on deep edges. Totally unnecessary...
    Beware Igor! Well he might be a genius and he definitly knows his stuff, but i positively HATE Chock/Bates step sequences, I wouldn't want them for Ilinykh/Zhiganshin even if they would win everything with it. They don't need a sly coach imho.
    Last edited by psusanne; Today at 12:14 PM.

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    Off my "rocker" viennaskater's Avatar
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    Cappellini/Lanotte need to change coaches big time - they do not look like the same couple this season. Their free dance is all wrong for their style. Remember they were world champions last year!

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Although Tarasova would probably provide much improved choreography for Liza, if she goes that route we should all give up any hopes of better costumes. I'd expect Tarasova to cover her in feathers and garish colors.

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    SoYoun Park (coach yes, choreographer maybe), Polina (choreographer), Pogo (coach), Liza (choreo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by psusanne View Post
    @Weathergal
    I don't think that Polina Edmunds should change anything.
    She's a strong competitor, she's grown much this year and is still doing very well, that's all positive. And until that pink costume she was wearing in her free this year her packaging was very good. Rudy Galindo is her choreographer, he's working with her on a weekly basis as far as I know and I think he did a fine job on her free, the music is light and pleasing, matching her skating perfectly. Watch the program again and try to ignore the costume (I know it's difficult), it's really very good.

    And yes, as mentioned above, Anna Pogorilaya should switch to another coach. I'd like to see her in a warmer enviroment, but I guess it's hard with all the competition in Russia. Does Anna Tsareva coach many other high level students? Maybe Anna needs someone who can give her full attention.
    Maybe it would be interesting to see what Tutberidze could do with Anna. What I heard there is a great atmosphere in the group. But I understand it is absolutely not possible. There are already pretty much skaters in her group and there is Lipnitskaia and Medvedeva, they will be a rivals for Anna next season. Or maybe she could try any other and not very well known coach?

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    Team Russian Silver Foxes gallavich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weathergal View Post
    Sergei Voronov — I thought his SP to Dance Macabre was good, but his long program might have contained the most disjointed mix of music cuts ever! His ISU bio lists Zhulin as his choreographer—did he really create that LP? I think the move to Eteri's group for coaching was a good one, but I'd like to see him with a different choreographer.
    Yes, it was Zhulin. I believe Zhulin also did Elena's SP, which I can't stand...but he's probably done some programs I liked, too. I am not so fond of the music cuts in Sergei's FS, but I liked the choreo, actually. And yes, Eteri is the right coach for him and I hope he's there with her to stay.

    Anna P. needs a coach change for sure...I was on the fence before, but it's time. Eteri has so many already I can't see that working out, but who then? Someone from CSKA?

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