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Thread: Stupid Questions Thread

  1. #1
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Stupid Questions Thread

    I figured maybe other people are like me and have some small questions they don't know where to put and that don't merit their own thread.

    So here I go (and maybe others can chime in both with questions and answers)

    1. In pairs skating, how are the twist levels determined. What is a level 2 triple twist as opposed to a level 4?

    2. On the ABC coverage of the women, Sandra B, genius that she is, said Elena R would have a harder time rotating triples fully because she is so small. Am I wrong that this is crazy and it's actually easier for her to rotate them BECAUSE she's so small?

    3. Also on the ABC coverage, they spelled Elena's name Yelena. Does someone who is fluent in Russian know which is correct??

    And thus end my stupid questions for today

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    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    3. Also on the ABC coverage, they spelled Elena's name Yelena. Does someone who is fluent in Russian know which is correct??
    It is not a matter of fluency in Russian.
    It is a question of how Radionova chooses to transliterate her own name.
    The correct spelling in Cyrillic is Елена (AFAIK).
    But each person named Елена can choose for herself whether she prefers the Roman transliteration of Elena or Yelena. As just a random first name (not attached to a specific individual), neither one is more correct or less correct -- i.e., there is no right or wrong.

    I myself do not know which Roman spelling Radionova prefers -- but all media outlets should be following the transliteration that she herself uses, if you ask me.

    And BTW, surely you are referring to the Skate America on NBC ... as opposed to ABC?

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    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I figured maybe other people are like me and have some small questions they don't know where to put and that don't merit their own thread.
    Great idea for a thread! I started a similar type of thread on a music forum I was a member of a few years ago!

    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    3. Also on the ABC coverage, they spelled Elena's name Yelena. Does someone who is fluent in Russian know which is correct??
    I am not fluent in Russian, but I have seen many examples of this over the years.

    For example, take Plushy. "Евге́ний" is normally Romanised as "Evgeni", but can also be "Yevgeny".

    Similarly, the Russian version of Catherine, "Екатерина", is normally Romanised as "Ekaterina", but is also commonly Romanised as "Yekaterina".

    On the other hand, the city whose name is derived from this name, "Екатеринбург", is normally Romanised as "Yekaterinburg", but can also be "Ekaterinburg".

    So, I guess it's just personal preference of the person doing the transliteration.

    CaroLiza_fan

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    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I figured maybe other people are like me and have some small questions they don't know where to put and that don't merit their own thread.

    So here I go (and maybe others can chime in both with questions and answers)

    1. In pairs skating, how are the twist levels determined. What is a level 2 triple twist as opposed to a level 4?

    2. On the ABC coverage of the women, Sandra B, genius that she is, said Elena R would have a harder time rotating triples fully because she is so small. Am I wrong that this is crazy and it's actually easier for her to rotate them BECAUSE she's so small?

    3. Also on the ABC coverage, they spelled Elena's name Yelena. Does someone who is fluent in Russian know which is correct??

    And thus end my stupid questions for today
    Answers:

    1. I have no idea! This was the first time since Vancouver I watched all 4 disciplines of skating. I usually just watch the ladies and maybe the men. I can figure out the protocols for pairs but the protocols for ice dance looked like Greek to me...

    2. I did think that was a really odd/dumb comment to make seeing as how it's a well-known fact most tiny girls are able to rotate their triples a lot easier than taller/bigger girls. Maybe what she meant to say was that although Elena wasn't jumping very high she was still managing to rotate her triples. IDK but I caught that too.

    3. I think it can be spelled differently. I've seen it spelled Elena and Yelena, just as I've seen Julia Lipnitskaya spelled Yulia Lipnitskaia. I don't speak Russian but apparently the English spelling changes and still means the same thing. Someone who actually speaks the language can probably offer more insight.

    Good stupid questions!

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    It is not a matter of fluency in Russian.
    It is a question of how Radionova chooses to transliterate her own name.
    The correct spelling in Cyrillic is Елена (AFAIK).
    But each person named Елена can choose for herself whether she prefers the Roman transliteration of Elena or Yelena. As a general question, there is no right and wrong. Neither one is more correct or less correct.

    I myself do not know which Roman spelling Radionova prefers. If you are saying that her own preference is known to be Elena, then I think that all media outlets should follow the transliteration that she herself uses.

    And BTW, surely you are referring to the Skate America on NBC ... as opposed to ABC?
    Yes NBC And I have no clue of Elena's own preference. I Just had never seen it spelled Yelena in referring to her before. For all I know that actuallyis her preference and we are all doing it 'wrong' then.

    ETA: Thanks everyone!! That was 3 super fast replies, I had two more by the time I was done typing this comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    1. In pairs skating, how are the twist levels determined. What is a level 2 triple twist as opposed to a level 4?
    For all elements that have levels, in singles and pairs, the level is based on the number of features.

    Number of features for Levels: 1 for Level 1, 2 for Level 2, 3 for Level 3, 4 for Level 4

    For twist lifts,

    1) Lady’s split position (each leg at least 45° from the body axis)
    2) Catching the lady at the side of the waist without her hand(s)/arm(s)/any part of upper body touching the man
    3) Lady’s position in the air with arm(s) above the head (minimum one full revolution)
    4) Difficult take-off (steps/skating moves executed by both partners immediately preceding take-off)
    5) Man’s arms sideways, being straight or almost straight, reaching at least shoulder level after release of the lady
    (You can download the latest document with this year's level features, ISU communication 1790, at http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html. USFS also has direct links to pieces of this communication on the Technical Info section of their website. Here's the Pairs Levels of Difficulty

    2. On the ABC coverage of the women, Sandra B, genius that she is, said Elena R would have a harder time rotating triples fully because she is so small. Am I wrong that this is crazy and it's actually easier for her to rotate them BECAUSE she's so small?
    A smaller skater can rotate more quickly, all else being equal. But if she gets stronger when she grows she may be able to jump higher (which gives more time to rotate) and also may improve her technique or the power she can put into generating rotational force.
    Could go either way.

    3. Also on the ABC coverage, they spelled Elena's name Yelena. Does someone who is fluent in Russian know which is correct??
    Different systems of transliteration spell that letter from the Cyrillic alphabet as E or as Ye. Either is correct depending which system is being used.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    This is also an issue with Yuna Kim's name, when you romanticize it from Korea:http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...ing-being.html

    Which bring up this question.

    1.) Why does some (commentators, graphics, etc) choose to call Yuna, Kim Yuna and not Yuna Kim? I mean that's the proper way to say it in Korea, but then they don't apply it to others. If you were going to be culturally sensitive, why not refer to Mao as "Asada Mao" or Daisuke Takahashi as "Takahashi Daisuke?"

    ETA: preference of the skater? Phil noted this in the article I linked above:
    First of all, I have chosen to write it with the family name (Kim) first because that is the Korean manner: family name, then given name. That also is the case in Chinese, but I eventually wrote the name of Chinese figure skating world champion Chen Lu as Lu Chen because she told U.S. media that was her preference for English usage.

  8. #8
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    More on the Elena/Yelena dichotomy:

    Cyrillic has another character: "Э" -- which has a similar but slightly different type of "e" sound. Sorry, I am not a linguist, so I do not know the proper terminology.

    But the Cyrillic "E" is pronounced "yeh," and the Cyrillic "Э" is pronounced "eh" (without any "y" sound at the beginning).

    I am not a native speaker of Russian, so I hope DobrinFan or someone else will jump in and correct me if I am wrong.

  9. #9
    More or less: more is more sequinsgalore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    1. In pairs skating, how are the twist levels determined. What is a level 2 triple twist as opposed to a level 4?
    You have to do features. 0 features in basic level, 1 feature is level 1, 2 features is level 2 and so on.

    On top of me head the features are:
    1. preceding steps
    2. split entry (at least 45 degree from body axis)
    3. mans arm below shoulder (when lady is in the air)
    4. lady has arm over head in the air
    5. the lady's arms and upper body do no touch the man on catch

    Here is a GIF I've made of Volosozhar/Trankovs twist at WC 2013. They got level 4 (feature 1, 2, 3, 5)

  10. #10
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Yelena, Yevgeniy, Yekatyerina, these are the good. You are right golden411.

    And for ex Andreev -> Andreyev, Gordeeva -> Gordyeyeva, Fadeev -> Fadyeyev, Stepanova -> Styepanova, Lipnitskaya ->Lipnyitskaya
    Grinkov is Гриньков -> Grinykov

  11. #11
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    New question: why (in your opinion, obviously!) do the judges give +2 and +3 GOEs to V/T SP lift? It looks really awkward to me...

  12. #12
    Custom Title Rachmaninoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    This is also an issue with Yuna Kim's name, when you romanticize it from Korea:http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...ing-being.html

    Which bring up this question.

    1.) Why does some (commentators, graphics, etc) choose to call Yuna, Kim Yuna and not Yuna Kim? I mean that's the proper way to say it in Korea, but then they don't apply it to others. If you were going to be culturally sensitive, why not refer to Mao as "Asada Mao" or Daisuke Takahashi as "Takahashi Daisuke?"
    It's funny, yeah. I remember wondering myself why some skaters got their family names put first to match their country's tradition, and sometimes they'd westernize it and put the given name first. With Lu Chen/Chen Lu, there was no consistent preference; you saw both uses all the time. But this doesn't seem to happen with Japanese skaters; it's always given name first, then family name. Why would they be the exception? I don't recall even any discussion of what their preferences were.

  13. #13
    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
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    Regarding Radionova's name's spelling, I was wondering why they spelled it how they did on the NBC coverage mainly because the ISU has been using Elena. I knew both were possible ways to spell it in English, but the inconsistency made me wonder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    This is also an issue with Yuna Kim's name, when you romanticize it from Korea:http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...ing-being.html

    Which bring up this question.

    1.) Why does some (commentators, graphics, etc) choose to call Yuna, Kim Yuna and not Yuna Kim? I mean that's the proper way to say it in Korea, but then they don't apply it to others. If you were going to be culturally sensitive, why not refer to Mao as "Asada Mao" or Daisuke Takahashi as "Takahashi Daisuke?"

    ETA: preference of the skater? Phil noted this in the article I linked above:
    I think many East Asian countries put the family name first. Korea seems to, and China generally does. for years there was confusion about how to present the name of Chen Lu. (Or Lu Chen.) I've heard Shen and Zhao's names treated both ways also. A Korean friend of mine referred to "Asada Mao" once when we were discussing skating, but I have no idea whether that reflects Japanese tradition as well as Korean tradition.

    I have a vague memory that some Eastern European countries might also use the last name first in some situations, notably Hungary. Can someone confirm or correct this?

    One style that the Russians used to have that was interesting, and I think it was also done in parts of India, was to give just the first two initials of the name (the forename and the patronymic name, such as Katia Alexandrovna, just as initials and then spell out the surname, as K.A. Gordeyeva. I once bought a Russian-produced opera recording where the entire cast was listed like that, so I had to cross my fingers as I bought it in hopes that S.I. Lemeshev was in fact Sergei Lemeshev, a tenor I love whose recordings are rarely seen in the U.S. (He was!)

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    I also noticed during SA that they listed "Y. Tuk..." on the leader board, so maybe she uses Yelizaveta too.

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