Random Figure Skating Questions

Layback11 said:

Not a stupid question at all!

Well, for one thing, it helps with lower-body strength, and that's absolutely critical for jumping. For another, posture is very important in all areas of skating, and ballet helps a lot with that (I started ballet to improve my posture and lines, and it worked!). And any jumping-even non-rotational jumps-helps you develop the muscles you need to get better height.

As for sports that help with jumps, I'd guess:

1) High jump, because of the sheer height you need to jump to-it'd get your jumps really big.

2) Track & field, mostly hurdles-for the same reason as high jump.

Lastly, 3) Gymnastics, because of the incredible lower-body strength you have to have to do it.

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Get it layback. Correct on all counts!! I'd also add that Ballet training not only makes you strong, it makes you flexible. This is key if you hope to stay free of muscles tears, sprains, and fractures. One of the worst injuries I've ever had is a "torn hip flexor." Forget dancing or skating. You can barely even walk up a flight of stairs without groaning in pain the entire time.

The worst part......You can walk around on flat surfaces with almost no trouble at all. Leading to...... "He's faking it!" Very irritating.

This is a really stupid question, but here goes.

Why is the much vaunted 'muscle memory' not much more of a guard against skaters suddenly getting jumps completely wrong in competition?

TheGrandSophy said:

Why is the much vaunted 'muscle memory' not much more of a guard against skaters suddenly getting jumps completely wrong in competition?

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That is a great question. In nearly every other sport I can think of, muscle memory will almost always override any sort of 'performance anxiety'. Although, my guesses would be that figure skating is often not taught as a 'competitive' sport in many countries, so the skaters lack the ability to deliver under pressure. Also, figure skating is largely not a 'team sport' -- all the focus is on the one (or two, in Pairs/ID) skaters who are currently skating at that given moment... this must be particularly difficult for singles skaters, because you have absolutely nobody to look to for support/reinforcement aside from the audience reaction or trying to spot your coach along the boards...

mikaboo said:

I didn't know that Wakaba could spin in both directions. Is there a video of it?

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Anyone. Per example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAmj9YLttUE

Mathman said:

Michelle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPRcajUQrM&t=2m25s

Here is Jeffrey Buttle spinning in both directions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9k16tQ0nyc&t=3m25s

The great Carol Heiss did her jumps clockwise and her spins counterclockwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esMOC6coY8U

She could also do a series of single Axels alternating directions.

Sonia Henie did her Lutz jump clockwise and all of her other jumps and spins counterclockwise.

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Thanks, thanks ! I'm writing a guide for jumps recognition, with some miscellaneous.

sabinfire said:

That is a great question. In nearly every other sport I can think of, muscle memory will almost always override any sort of 'performance anxiety'. Although, my guesses would be that figure skating is often not taught as a 'competitive' sport in many countries, so the skaters lack the ability to deliver under pressure. Also, figure skating is largely not a 'team sport' -- all the focus is on the one (or two, in Pairs/ID) skaters who are currently skating at that given moment... this must be particularly difficult for singles skaters, because you have absolutely nobody to look to for support/reinforcement aside from the audience reaction or trying to spot your coach along the boards...

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IMHE, the key is that muscle memory isn't confined to good technique. If you did something wrong for years and more recently learned the "right" way to do something, it's often the "wrong" technique you revert to under pressure or in stressful situations.

Why nobody is warning figure skating newbie fans that off-season is soooooooo long?

The sport is super-exciting and ADDICTIVE(!) mix of ahleticism and art, there is so much drama, politics, controversies, fans wars and everyting, but those 6 months are UNBEARABLE! :scowl:
It's 3-4 months in football, NBA, etc.. I just feel like wild animal closed in a concrete cage.

ROAR!!!

witcher said:

Why nobody is warning figure skating newbie fans that off-season is soooooooo long?

The sport is super-exciting and ADDICTIVE(!) mix of ahleticism and art, there is so much drama, politics, controversies, fans wars and everyting, but those 6 months are UNBEARABLE! :scowl:
It's 3-4 months in football, NBA, etc.. I just feel like wild animal closed in a concrete cage.

ROAR!!!

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Funny, my better half has been complaining there is no off season in figure season, there is a down season, (now) but it is not really off. WTT ended April 19. That was the end of last season. Broadmoor open was June 26. That is barely 2 months between the end of season 2014-2015 and the start of 2015-2016. As soon as one season ends, the next one is starting.

So summer comps start two months after the season ends, then Challenger series starts September 16, three months after Broadmoor. So we get 2 months off that we are all eagerly looking for info on new programs, then three months of summer pre-season comps, then it all start up again in earnest.

The skaters don't get an off season that is for sure!

StitchMonkey said:

The skaters don't get an off season that is for sure!

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Huh?

When I support football team, I have to wait 3 max 4 months to see my beloved team competing again in the league.
When I support a skater, I have to wait 6 or more(!) months to see my beloved skater competing again [Worlds (late March) -> first GP event (late October)].

witcher said:

Huh?

When I support football team, I have to wait 3 max 4 months to see my beloved team competing again in the league.
When I support a skater, I have to wait 6 or more(!) months to see my beloved skater competing again [Worlds (late March) -> first GP event (late October)].

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Maybe if you only follow specific skaters with self-imposed rules regarding what counts, but there is plenty of skating to be had still right now and your dates don't reflect the season. The season starts before the first grand prix and ends with WTT not worlds. I mean I am look at this from the view that I saw skaters skate in the new season two months after the end of the prior season. I don't think two months between season is very long at all, especially when that time is spent working on new routines.

Even if you are disinterested in summer comps, it is pretty clear the skaters are still working and it would be a bit insulting to tell them they are having an off season right now.

Just because you don't have an interest in anything till the grand prix does not mean that it is an "off season". The new season has already begun, and competitions are taking place currently, there is no need to wait unless you want to.

Right. WTT doesn't take place every year, so Worlds in March is usually the end of competition for the season. Of course, there are summer ice shows and mini-comps that take place, though the major competition and bulk of the 'figure skating season' would be September (some may even say October) through March. It's really only about a 6-month season sport.

StitchMonkey said:

Even if you are disinterested in summer comps, it is pretty clear the skaters are still working and it would be a bit insulting to tell them they are having an off season right now.

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I don't know about that. Even in another sport I follow (the NHL), the off-season can include playing games overseas, training camps, exhibitions games with opposing teams prior to the regular season -- it is still off-season to me and everyone else that follows that sport.

Stitch...it's the off season. WTT is fine and all but it's a limited field and the majority of the season winds down from April-September. That's a good five months of hype, practice videos, and anticipation. I don't think it matters if you love and follow every skater on the planet. It's slow and dull in comparison to GP season.

Witcher was just trying to make a funny point that fans need to be warned of the potential madness that can accompany the offseason. It's just a joke

sabinfire said:

Right. WTT doesn't take place every year, so Worlds in March is usually the end of competition for the season. Of course, there are summer ice shows and mini-comps that take place, though the major competition and bulk of the 'figure skating season' would be September (some may even say October) through March. It's really only about a 6-month season sport.

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And Team Cup is being add this year in April. I *think* we are going to see Cup and WTT alternate years going forward. Assuming WTT 2017 happens, that is three years in a row of an event post worlds so getting to feel normal.

I can understand fan interest not being the same during the summer (though personally I like seeing the growth and development, so i love this part of the year - maybe I am just a weirdo) but that does not mean it does not exist. Fans may perceive an off season, based on their interests but they should not project that on the skaters. Skaters have to start working on the next season's programs often before the season ends. They appear to be working year round.

Maybe we have different definitions, but to me calling it a "six month sport season" comes dangerously close to implying the skaters are working a six months work season and that is really not fair to them. The skaters pretty clearly do not get six months off a year. I guess I view "the season" more from the POV of the skater's work schedule than what I am entertained by. I don't follow football, but I would tend to think that "season" starts with when the players start training, even if the spectators don't start to see it for a few months. The athletes are still working. If most skaters are working their engines off for a specific purpose - I have hard time calling it "off season". Maybe it is a six month spectator sport and six moths of behind the scenes planning is the best compromise of a way to look at it.

sabinfire said:

I don't know about that. Even in another sport I follow (the NHL), the off-season can include playing games overseas, training camps, exhibitions games with opposing teams prior to the regular season -- it is still off-season to me and everyone else that follows that sport.

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... My guess is I would start seeing the season starting sooner in that case. To me once the team is working as a group, i would call it the season starting. Honestly I think I am more likely to decide other athletes don't get an off season than to be convinced the skaters get an off season. I really respect how hard these skaters work, and one of the things that impresses me and makes me respect the sport and the athletes is the schedule they keep and how there is so little down time from their stand point.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Stitch...it's the off season. WTT is fine and all but it's a limited field and the majority of the season winds down from April-September. That's a good five months of hype, practice videos, and anticipation. I don't think it matters if you love and follow every skater on the planet. It's slow and dull the n comparison to GP season.

Witcher was just trying to make a funny point that fans need to be warned of the potential madness that can accompany the offseason. It's just a joke :)

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And so is my better half lamenting that he can't go a week without finding out another competitions is coming up. Honestly it is both in many ways and it is funny how you can word it and look at it however you want. When you get get enough, the summer low season feels loooooong... but when you live with a skater fan, it can feel pretty dang short of a break! To me it only an "off season" by comparison to the rest of the year, "low season" seems more accurate.

I guess I am just a cheap date. I like the summer comps and I like following them. It feels odd to me to say this is the off season while I am eagerly awaiting two competitions this month (seriously, I am checking for the skaters list for Colorado Championships daily - I don't feel very off season) but maybe the shinny objects i get distracted by are just a bit dull to everyone else.

It also could be that my view is just really skewed by living in Colorado. For me, I have more access to events during the summer than the real season so I am feel very in the heart of skating right now! Colorado Championships are near me and at the end of this month, then there is some Pikes Peak summer comp at World Arena in August, then the JGP in Colorado Springs. . .yeah i think geography kinda broke my brain and I am sorry if i rubbed anyone the wrong way.

I still say the skaters have more than a six month work season though...

I think most of us are fans here, and from a fan & competition perspective, it is the off-season. 'Off-season' does not mean nothing is happening, it is the slowest time of the year for the sport when all the major comps are completed and skaters are preparing for the next season.

Athletes do not get the luxury to take months off from any physically demanding sport, as they must always remain in shape and ready to face the next season. The training an athlete goes through over the summer does not mean the figure skating season is endless for us.

StitchMonkey said:

... The skaters don't get an off season that is for sure!

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witcher said:

Huh?

When I support football team, I have to wait 3 max 4 months to see my beloved team competing again in the league.
When I support a skater, I have to wait 6 or more(!) months to see my beloved skater competing again [Worlds (late March) -> first GP event (late October)].

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witcher's skeptical reply to Stitch bothers me too.
I recognized that witcher's earlier post was intended to be humorous.
But w's reply to Stitch strikes me as lack of appreciation and/or respect for the skaters' year-round commitment to their sport.

From the point of view of the skaters, I agree with Stitch that they do not get an off season.
Pretty sure that training even more intensively during the supposed "off season" than during the competitive season has been a common theme in skater interviews over the years.
The supposed "off season" is a time for getting new programs; possibly for getting settled with new coaches and/or new on-ice partnerships; for attending training camps; possibly for performing in shows; and hopefully getting some vacation for a week or two -- but probably not longer.

Adding to what Stitch already said, USFS had an ISP camp right after the Broadmoor Open, and USFS already had held a Pairs camp and an Ice Dance camp even earlier. U.S. Champs Camp is in August.
Skate Canada's High Performance Camp usually is in early Sep, and I believe that Skate Canada already has had at least one other camp this summer .
And I definitely get the sense that skaters from other federations are attending similar camps and training very hard in general during the supposed "off season."

(Anyway ... if witcher or anyone else truly is going stir crazy and would like to contribute more to GS than you already do:
If you are not already helping Doris with Fan Fests, I'm sure that she would welcome your assistance/expertise to upgrade OPs of skaters who are beloved to you.)

Witchers skeptical reply????

All Witcher said was he had to wait 6 months (or more if they don't go to international championships...*implied*) to see his beloved skaters compete again. How we've jumped to the conclusion that he doesn't appreciate the hard work that goes into the offseason baffles me and almost demonstrates Witchers first post of offseason madness.

I am at a rink nearly everyday and partake in the madness that is offseason training. It's the most grueling time of year I agree but not exciting nor does it offer fans a chance to see their favorite skaters compete.

Let's move on from this shall we?

Sam-Skwantch said:

Let's move on from this shall we?

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Yes, please. It has taken a really bizarre turn.