Random Figure Skating Questions

StitchMonkey said:

I don't follow football, but I would tend to think that "season" starts with when the players start training, even if the spectators don't start to see it for a few months. The athletes are still working.

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You're right, European footballers have max 1 month vacations (mostly ~3weeks), then THEIR off-season ends, still OUR (viewers) off-season in football is 3-4 months between last competitive event ending old season and the first of new one. In FS it's ~6 months regarding top skaters or 10 months regarding Julia Lipitskaya.
I'm obviously discussing things from fan's point of view and (as Sam's noticed) teasing a little bit.

sabinfire said:

I think most of us are fans here, and from a fan & competition perspective, it is the off-season. 'Off-season' does not mean nothing is happening, it is the slowest time of the year for the sport when all the major comps are completed and skaters are preparing for the next season.

Athletes do not get the luxury to take months off from any physically demanding sport, as they must always remain in shape and ready to face the next season. The training an athlete goes through over the summer does not mean the figure skating season is endless for us.

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Ok. if that is how you define off season... as the default name for the lower part of the year, I'll concede even if it feels unnatural to me. To me, "off-season" tends to imply nothing formalized is going on, closed for business, turn the lights out see you in a few months. That probably is because I don't follow sports much. I always assumed sports fans include "pre-season" and "summer training camps" as part of the season and not the "off season" for lack of a better way to put it.

I do still find the athletes schedules to be fascinating and demanding. It would be interesting to look at how other athletes stay fit in their off seasons and what they do differently. For skaters, the off season is when they lean new tricks/programs rather then competing those tricks and programs. So they are still training but almost more in learning mode for lack of a better way to put it. There is a cycle to when they train things, but the cycle kinda just keeps going for them. I wonder how different the training is in other sports off season, are they just trying to keep what they have or do they use it to focus on other stuff. Like do pitchers practice pitching much during the off season, or do they work on general endurance and try to save the shoulder instead maybe. And from there I am sure we could get into a debate about conditioning vs training would be my guess.

I have always found the behind the scenes training to be of great interest. I can actually pin point the moment when figure skating became a sport to me as a kid and not just something fun to watch. It was a news piece during knee gate in the 90s that showed Nancy doing some strange workout in a pool where she was like doing pull up out of a pool while going in a circle doing it. It was bizarre and something i had never seen before and still have never seen and it captivated me. That scene really clicked for me that this was a damn hard sport and these athletes do a hell of a lot of work that we don't know about. That one scene is a big part of why I am a life long fan. From that time forward I have always been very interested in what going on behind the scenes to take the skater to the point we seen them. So when you grow up always looking for that behind the scenes aspect. I have spent most of my life deliberately seeking out the side of skating you don't get to see on TV, so now that we can follow that part, I think I got a little to excited and forgot not everyone enjoys the level of minutiae that I do.

I apologized for any ruffled feathers I may have caused.

Here is a new direction

Will we ever see an outdoor event like the NHL does with the Winter Classic? Obviously a smaller venue like a college football field but since the sport started on ponds and lakes wouldn't it be cool to see Skate America outdoors....Brrrr!!

Sam-Skwantch said:

Here is a new direction

Will we ever see an outdoor event like the NHL does with the Winter Classic? Obviously a smaller venue like a college football field but since the sport started on ponds and lakes wouldn't it be cool to see Skate America outdoors....Brrrr!!

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I tend to doubt it. I recall I think it was Peggy Flemming lamenting about skating on an outdoor rink at a competition and it was raining. It was said with no sign of nostalgia and the impression i got from the talkers at that event was they were glad it was a thing of the past. It did not sound like they wanted to go back.

I do have a vague memory of some outdoor pro event during the 90s that I only remember because apparently Jozef Sabovcik drew a big "?" on the planned elements form - that was my first into to jumping Jo.

I think it could work for an exhibition, but for a full on event... well I admit the schadenfreude aspect might be appealing but my desire for fairness and comfort is winning out. I think that all the GPs a season should be as tantamount as possible.

Though maybe someone should tell the NHL to add a sycro routine to the half time of this Winter Classic, that might be fun.

Do they use Zamboni's on ponds?

To take this in another weirder direction. Do any skaters or skating clubs use Amazon Affiliate codes? I was thinking that if not they should as it could be a nice little way to fans to get them some money without it costing the fans money.

StitchMonkey said:

.... To me it only an "off season" by comparison to the rest of the year, "low season" seems more accurate. ...

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:agree: "Low season" is definitely a better term than "off season."
And "low season" and "high season" are the terms used in the ISU bios :yes:.

And elaborating on the point in my previous post:

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witcher said:

Huh? ....

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Sam-Skwantch said:

Witchers skeptical reply???? ...

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witcher quoted just one sentence from Stitch, which was:

witcher's reply:

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And now I will move on:

StitchMonkey said:

... I guess I am just a cheap date. I like the summer comps and I like following them. It feels odd to me to say this is the off season while I am eagerly awaiting two competitions this month (seriously, I am checking for the skaters list for Colorado Championships daily - I don't feel very off season) but maybe the shinny objects i get distracted by are just a bit dull to everyone else.

It also could be that my view is just really skewed by living in Colorado. For me, I have more access to events during the summer than the real season so I am feel very in the heart of skating right now! Colorado Championships are near me and at the end of this month, then there is some Pikes Peak summer comp at World Arena in August, then the JGP in Colorado Springs. . .yeah i think geography kinda broke my brain and I am sorry if i rubbed anyone the wrong way. ...

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Are you going to the Colorado Championships, Stitch?
Look forward to more reports from you and your better half .
Last year, Max A, Maddie/Max S, and Scimeca/Knierim competed there . Plus maybe some other notables -- don't remember off the top of my head.

Do they use Zamboni's on ponds?

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A better question might be do Zamboni drivers read all the signs?

https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/500x_zamboni_fail.jpg

That actually happened at Keystone while I was on a trip to Summit County. I remember reading about it in the Summit Daily News.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Here is a new direction

Will we ever see an outdoor event like the NHL does with the Winter Classic? Obviously a smaller venue like a college football field but since the sport started on ponds and lakes wouldn't it be cool to see Skate America outdoors....Brrrr!!

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Nope, not a major event of any kind, at least...

It is a huge ordeal even for the NHL to setup such an event once a year, and weather is almost always a concern.

I'd love to see it though... would it be held during the day or night? And I think some costumes would need to be modified quite extensively, would be challenging to compete in below-freezing temps with your joints freezing up... and the falls would probably really hurt, along with the frost-bite of the wind hitting your face. Seems like it's always snowing during the NHL Winter Classic too!

golden411 said:

Are you going to the Colorado Championships, Stitch?
Look forward to more reports from you and your better half .
Last year, Max A, Maddie/Max S, and Scimeca/Knierim competed there . Plus maybe some other notables -- don't remember off the top of my head.

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I am waiting on the schedule/skaters list to make a final decision. I likely will head over for some of the stuff at least. It is on the other side of Denver Suburbia for me, so not far, but also not somewhere id want to drive to in rush hour. I don't know if my better half will be joining me for much of it.

One cool thing about this comp is that there is a bar next door that has windows over looking one of the rinks. It could be fun to sit in the bar and watch...and drink.

Sam-Skwantch said:

A better question might be do Zamboni drivers read all the signs?

https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/500x_zamboni_fail.jpg

That actually happened at Keystone while I was on a trip to Summit County. I remember reading about it in the Summit Daily news.

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I am not surprised it happened... a lot of people in the mountain towns seem to think they are alphas over nature, it does not always work out.

Plus good excuse to link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEFU9JiQbvQ

http://www.theonion.com/article/emergency-crews-attempt-to-rescue-olympic-figure-s-35313

StitchMonkey said:

Ok. if that is how you define off season... as the default name for the lower part of the year, I'll concede even if it feels unnatural to me. To me, "off-season" tends to imply nothing formalized is going on, closed for business, turn the lights out see you in a few months. That probably is because I don't follow sports much. I always assumed sports fans include "pre-season" and "summer training camps" as part of the season and not the "off season" for lack of a better way to put it.

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It's okay, you probably never played a sport in your life. There's In Season where you are competing, and the Off Season when you are preparing for the next competitive season. I suppose a month before your first competition can be counted as In Season, but once your competitive season ends, you are officially Off Season. Some skaters/athletes take a few weeks off, but not too long, because it just makes getting back into competitive shape harder.

StitchMonkey said:

I do have a vague memory of some outdoor pro event during the 90s that I only remember because apparently Jozef Sabovcik drew a big "?" on the planned elements form - that was my first into to jumping Jo.

Do they use Zamboni's on ponds?

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That was probably the Sun Valley Open that they had back in the 90s.

Since I'm not aware of any, though there might be, I can't be sure. But I don't see why not. When Boitano did his taped special up in Alaska (?) there was definitely a Zamboni that cleared the ice.

LiamForeman said:

It's okay, you probably never played a sport in your life. There's In Season where you are competing, and the Off Season when you are preparing for the next competitive season. I suppose a month before your first competition can be counted as In Season, but once your competitive season ends, you are officially Off Season. Some skaters/athletes take a few weeks off, but not too long, because it just makes getting back into competitive shape harder.

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I had moved on from the Low Season / Off Season discussion as a whole, but I am going to briefly return to it .
(I am continuing the discussion as a whole -- not responding specifically to LiamF. Not trying to argue with anyone or criticize anyone. Just musing :think:.)

I do think that what figure skaters accomplish during low season (or "off season" or whatever you want to call it) could be considered to have more significant direct impact on their upcoming competitive season compared to what athletes from at least some other sports accomplish during low season.

For instance, golfers or swimmers (as examples of athletes who compete as individuals) would be working to improve their skills in whatever "off season" they get.
In contrast, skaters not only are working on skills in general, but also are taking on at least one brand-new program per season that will be the direct basis for the new season's results. Brand-new choreo, brand-new music, and possibly new elements.
I have no doubt that Missy Franklin works very hard all year, but isn't a swimmer like her basically improving the same skills season after season? (Unless she is specializing in a new stroke entirely. I'm not a swimmer or a skater, but even specializing in a new race distance would seem less drastic to me than a whole new SD.)

And for at least some team sports, athletes are away from their teammates for a matter of months during the "off season" -- true for pro baseball and pro football in the U.S., I am pretty sure.
So I have no doubt that Drew Brees always is working on his own skills, studying film, etc. But he is not practicing plays (new or old) with his teammates throughout the "off season."

StitchMonkey said:

I am waiting on the schedule/skaters list to make a final decision. I likely will head over for some of the stuff at least. It is on the other side of Denver Suburbia for me, so not far, but also not somewhere id want to drive to in rush hour. I don't know if my better half will be joining me for much of it.

One cool thing about this comp is that there is a bar next door that has windows over looking one of the rinks. It could be fun to sit in the bar and watch...and drink.

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Please keep us posted, Stitch. On who is competing and whether you are going. (Not on your intake of adult beverages .)

golden411 said:

I do think that what figure skaters accomplish during low season (or "off season" or whatever you want to call it) could be considered to have more significant direct impact on their upcoming competitive season compared to what athletes from at least some other sports accomplish during low season.

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Trying to follow this subject, but it seems like it's gone off in a few directions. For me, the height of figure skating season begins in the Fall right around Grand Prix time, and ends shortly after Worlds/WTT. After that, it's the off-season/low-season/whatever-we-are-calling-it. This is from a fans perspective, who finds the biggest events of the season to be the most exciting. I think this is where witcher and others are coming from. I'm not sure it needs to be stated that athletes (especially skaters) train hard when the peak of the season is over -- they no longer have to run from event to event around the world, and have plenty of time to devote to training and learning new programs/skills to be used next season. Got it.

If this is turning into a discussion of 'Which athletes work the hardest over the course of a year?', I will have to respectfully bow out of that part.

sabinfire said:

Trying to follow this subject, but it seems like it's gone off in a few directions. For me, the height of figure skating season begins in the Fall right around Grand Prix time, and ends shortly after Worlds/WTT. After that, it's the off-season/low-season/whatever-we-are-calling-it. This is from a fans perspective, who finds the biggest events of the season to be the most exciting. I think this is where witcher and others are coming from. I'm not sure it needs to be stated that athletes (especially skaters) train hard when the peak of the season is over -- they no longer have to run from event to event around the world, and have plenty of time to devote to training and learning new programs/skills to be used next season. Got it.

If this is turning into a discussion of 'Which athletes work the hardest over the course of a year?', I will have to respectfully bow out of that part.

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I said very clearly in my previous post that I was not arguing with anyone or criticizing anyone.

I was turning a corner from the previous discussion -- but not to the topic of who works the hardest over the course of a year.

But I give up. Not worth getting misinterpreted further.

Although... let me just point out...

Hockey players in the NHL play 82 games a season, with a game lasting 60 minutes (not including intermissions, breaks in play, etc.) This usually amounts to 2 and a half to 3 hours of game-time overall.

How many events do figure skaters attend, and how much time do they actually spend on the ice in competition?

golden411 said:

... I was turning a corner from the previous discussion -- but not to the topic of who works the hardest over the course of a year....

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sabinfire said:

Although... let me just point out...

Hockey players in the NHL play 82 games a season, with a game lasting 60 minutes (not including intermissions, breaks in play, etc.) This usually amounts to 2 and a half to 3 hours of game-time overall.

How many events do figure skaters attend, and how much time do they actually spend on the ice in competition?

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Sorry, sabinfire, but you and I are talking about apples and oranges. See my emphasis above.

I'm not going away mad ... I'm just going away .

What was the corner turn? It sounded to me like you were 'musing' that figure skaters are the only athletes doing anything truly worthwhile or new in the "off season", while everyone else was simply taking a break or 'maintaining' fitness.

Alright...here is a stupid question.

Does anyone know what radius/hollow most professional/elite figure skaters get on their blades? I've seen NHL teams equipment logs and other than goalies most get 5/8 to 7/16. Talking to a girl who has competed in one of the summer comps discussed here at GS she said she gets 3/8 which is SHARP. Do the elite skaters prefer the more aggressive cuts like that?

Follow up....why aren't skaters on the GP and that compete in other ISU sanctioned events considered professionals? They earn prize money right which would eliminate amateur status in most sports? What's up with that?

Sam-Skwantch said:

Do running 3's count as s difficult entrance into a spin?

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And nobody ever answered this question for me from a few pages back.

sabinfire said:

What was the corner turn? It sounded to me like you were 'musing' that figure skaters are the only athletes doing anything truly worthwhile or new in the "off season", while everyone else was simply taking a break or 'maintaining' fitness.

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No, that is not a fair representation of what I was saying.
But I really, really don't want to go further down this road. If I had realized that it would be so difficult to convey what I was thinking, I never would have tried to turn the corner in the first place.

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Here's a really stupid question -- reaching far beyond skating, athletes, etc. .
I have wondered the same thing as Alexa:


I think I read somewhere that bae did not originate from babe. But seems as if bae has become an alternative for babe???

I believe it stands for Before Anyone Else.