Random Figure Skating Questions

CaroLiza_fan · Jul 29, 2015

lyverbird1 said:
I was lurking through some of the older posts on this fun thread and had to bring this one back. I guess the stuff the other poster was smoking wasn't that strong after all!!!!

As you are a relative new poster, I take it you don't know this.

The "other poster" you refer to, Ziggy, unfortunately died during the summer between the 2013/14 and 2014/15 seasons.

(I can't actually find his memorial thread at the moment, otherwise I would link to it)

CaroLiza_fan

ice coverage · Jul 29, 2015

For Doris and anyone else:

One of the reasons I would say that political correctness is something of a farce:

In my experience, many people do bend over backward to say African-American, and I am all for that (my understanding is that it is the term preferred by many African-Americans). I myself do take care to say African-American.

BUT ... in my experience, many people smugly think they are being politically correct to say "Asian" when referring to people who were born and live in the U.S.
Why do they not bend over backward to say Asian-American?
Asian-American would be far preferable to me.
And Asian-American should be the default parallel to African-American, even if someone does not know my personal preference.

It should be a no-brainer that "Asian" could be hurtful b/c it ignores the group's American-ness.
And yet when I have tried to politely explain my preference to people whom I know (whom I know and like), some of them have trouble understanding that reasoning ... and continue to say "Asian." (Not because they consciously are going out of their way to hurt me. But the difference just doesn't seem to matter to them.)

"Asians" are from Asia, as far as I am concerned.
Previous generations of my family are from Asia, but I am not from Asia. I am from the U.S.

One of my pet peeves is the common scenario I have experienced with random strangers who are making conversation -- seatmates on flights within the U.S., for example.
They ask: "Where are you from?"
When I answer with the name of the U.S. state where I was born, the next question often is: "But where are you really from?"
That's an example of why the "-American" part of "Asian-American" is important to me. My way of taking a stand that I "really" am American. I am proud of my Asian heritage, but I am American.

ETA:

I would venture to guess that in similar conversations, people born in the U.S. who happen to have Irish or Italian heritage or whatever could simply answer that they are from New York or California or wherever -- without being pressed for where they "really" are from.
(For anyone wondering, I objectively can say that I speak English with 100% fluency and 0% of a foreign accent. I should hope so, being that I was born in the U.S. The sound of my speech would be no excuse for assuming that I "really" am from somewhere other than the U.S.)

Forgot to make and/or didn't get around to making the points above yesterday. But it is not my intent or desire to stir up lengthy new debate.

CaroLiza_fan said:
... Does anybody know what Naomi Lang is up to these days? ...

I've seen Naomi Lang's name on cast lists for many ice shows in the last few years. Disson, etc.

And IIRC, I think she is a coach too.

nieves · Jul 29, 2015

FYI it's not a "funny" term- it's racist and antiquated, created by white people and if you're ok with it you're clearly ignorant. man, this thread is nuts. I'm Asian too btw and will roll my eyes and judge you if you ever use it ^_^

ice coverage · Jul 29, 2015

nieves said:
FYI it's not a "funny" term- it's racist and antiquated, created by white people and if you're ok with it you're clearly ignorant. man, this thread is nuts. I'm Asian too btw and will roll my eyes and judge you if you ever use it ^_^

If your comment is intended for me and refers to my discussion of "Oriental:"

I have never once said that it was a "funny" term in the sense of "humorous."
(And I am 99% sure that I have never said it was "funny" in the sense of "strange" either.)

I will be sure not to use Oriental in reference to you as an individual.

But as Doris said, you do not get to pick what does and does not bother me.

ETA:

Occurs to me that maybe your comment was a reaction to the post I have quoted below.
If so, you are misconstruing what I said.
I did not say the term "Oriental" is funny.
I said that it is a funny coincidence that someone from GS happened to have lunch at a place with "Oriental" in its name on the same day that this thread had a lot of discussion of the term. Saying that the coincidence is funny is very different from saying the term is funny.

golden411 said:
... It's funny to me too that you visited the restaurant of that name today of all days .

TheGrandSophy · Jul 29, 2015

The ticketing system for Worlds seems very odd to me. One has to put preferences and then get emailed back with a seat assignment 3-5 days later.

May be a stupid question, but why can't it run like any big concert where you have an online booking system where you can see what tickets are sold and not and buy respectively?

Also, this is my first skating competition attendance, so I don't have experience. Is this ticketing system normal?

nieves · Jul 29, 2015

golden, wow that is so kind and generous of you not to use that word for me, thank you so much!

I think you're misunderstanding what Doris said. It's not just about me. Majority of Asian Americans find 'oriental' offensive, and certainly Asians outside of the US as well. I'm sure the Chinese Premier wouldn't be too happy about people using it.

LiamForeman · Jul 29, 2015

nieves said:
golden, wow that is so kind and generous of you not to use that word for me, thank you so much!

I think you're misunderstanding what Doris said. It's not just about me. Majority of Asian Americans find 'oriental' offensive, and certainly Asians outside of the US as well. I'm sure the Chinese Premier wouldn't be too happy about people using it.

It reminds me of my training. Only three in the senior residents. Last names were Nguyen, Lee, and Barnstein. Nguyen really embraced her Vietnamese heritage and during a lunch break we all were talking about where we grew up, our parents, etc. I turned to Lee, who was probably Chinese, and asked her where did her family come from? Nothing racist. I mean I thought I'm talking about my Jewish and Native American ancestry (I used to say American Indian but learned that was verboden) Lee with a real nasty attitude said "Denver". Ice cold. Ummkay.... Totally drama queen, and I seriously had no issue. But lord she let everyone in the building know that she is not "from" anywhere but Denver. I thought she was very immature, especially for a senior resident, but whatever. She ruined the whole day with her outrage. Pick them battles, peeps. She made a fool of herself and then some. The rest of us tried to just ignore her and talk about growing up Vietnamese in America, Jewish in Houston, blah blah. Lee just sat there and sulked feeling she was being prejudiced against. Grow up.

ice coverage · Jul 29, 2015

nieves said:
golden, wow that is so kind and generous of you not to use that word for me, thank you so much!

I think you're misunderstanding what Doris said. It's not just about me. Majority of Asian Americans find 'oriental' offensive, and certainly Asians outside of the US as well. I'm sure the Chinese Premier wouldn't be too happy about people using it.

I think you are misunderstanding the full scope of what Doris said.
But I will leave Doris out of it, and simply repeat that you do not get to pick what does and does not offend me.

Do you have any stats to back up your assertion re the "majority?" That is a sincere question. If any scientific polls have been conducted, I would be interested to see the results.

Speaking of offensive, many people find it offensive to call someone "ignorant," as you did in your previous post.

And don't worry, I did perceive the sarcasm of your first sentence. Didn't appreciate it, but I perceived it.

Last but not least:

I never once have said that I run around calling anyone Oriental. I do not do so -- because I do not want to accidentally ruffle feathers or be hurtful. But I stand by my opinion that the term does not bother me.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2015

^ If I am not mistaken, "American Indian" has made a comeback and is now OK. But if you really want to be cool, you say "Cherokee American Indian," "Algonquin American Indian," etc.

ice coverage · Jul 29, 2015

LiamForeman said:
... The rest of us tried to just ignore her and talk about growing up Vietnamese in America, Jewish in Houston, blah blah. ... Grow up.

I'll make a deal with you.
I know Jewish people who live in Houston.
I will "grow up" if a cabbie in NYC ever asks them where they are "really" from, after they already have said that they are from Houston.

ETA:

I don't condone the nastiness of the reaction from your colleague.
When I get the "where are you 'really' from?" question, I make a point of politely saying, "I have family from Japan ..."
I never say that I am from Japan, because I am not from Japan. It is not inherently nasty or sulky for me to make that distinction.
And making that distinction does not mean that I do not embrace my Asian heritage.

LiamForeman said:
... I thought I'm talking about my Jewish and Native American ancestry (I used to say American Indian but learned that was verboden)....

You and I actually have been in the same boat -- meaning that some with the same ancestry as yours have made something verboten that had been OK by you.

I think we all are acknowledging the same thing:

That within a large group, different people can and do have different opinions.
Different women can have opposing opinions on "women's" issues.
Different members of the same race can have different opinions on issues pertaining to the race.

I make every effort to be courteous to everyone.
But I am allowed to have my own opinions about my own race.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2015

The parents of entertainer Jack Soo (real name Goro Suzuki) immigrated from Japan to the United States. When it came time for the baby to come, they took a boat to Japan so that the baby would be born there. Mrs. Suzuki delivered on the boat in transit. This counted as being born in America.

When he played the character Sgt. Nick Yemana on the TV show Barney Miller, they once made kind of an inside joke about it. They asked him, "So, where in Japan are you from, Nick."

Yemana deadpanned: "O-ma-ha."

nieves · Jul 29, 2015

Not sure what you're getting at here with that story and how it relates to my comment. Are you trying to compare this conversation to that situation because if so you're completely off. Embracing your heritage/culture ≠ accepting others right to find something not offensive. I competely embrace my heritage and love talking about it -- in the right context. It's really an awful thing to have to defend yourself against others because you find an something offensive (vs defending yourself that you find something NOT offensive)... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

nieves · Jul 29, 2015

Lol I think LiamForeman was referring to me Golden! :drama:

ice coverage · Jul 29, 2015

Mathman said:
The parents of entertainer Jack Soo (real name Goro Suzuki) immigrated from Japan to the United States. When it came time for the baby to come, they took a boat to Japan so that the baby would be born there. Mrs. Suzuki delivered on the boat in transit. This counted as being born in America.

When he played the character Sgt. Nick Yemana on the TV show Barney Miller, they once made kind of an inside joke about it. They asked him, "So, where in Japan are you from, Nick."

Yemana deadpanned: "O-ma-ha."

Thx, MM

. Wasn't aware of that story.

BTW, you made a neutral reference to the Japanese internment camps earlier (completely non-offensive reference) ... and now I will add a thought on that general topic, although I earlier had responded that I wanted to stay away from it.

The following comment is a general addition to what I have said previously. Not a direct reply to any particular post from someone.

At the time of WWII, the U.S. incarcerated over 100,000 Japanese-Americans in internment camps.
Nonetheless, over 30,000 Japanese-Americans volunteered for the U.S. Army -- many of them in combat positions.

http://www.sites.si.edu/exhibitions/exhibits/congressionalGoldMedal/

An example of why it is important to make a distinction between "Japanese-Americans" and Japanese from Japan.
And one of the reasons I don't like being asked, "Where are you really from?"

nieves said:
Lol I think LiamForeman was referring to me Golden!

Sorry to LiamForeman and to all if I misunderstood the flow of the thread.

Meanwhile, nieves, if you ever would like to provide those stats, I will be all ears

.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2015

nieves said:
Not sure what you're getting at here with that story and how it relates to my comment.

Oh, sorry. I was not getting at anything or responding to your comment. When I saw that routine on TV I thought it was funny, making a mild joke about the fact that the Degiha-Souix name Omaha (Nebraska) sounds sort of Japanese-y. The joke turns on the point that the other policeman expected Yemana to name a Japanese city, so it's kind of a double-take when he says Ohama. The joke wouldn't have worked if he had said Kansas City.

IIRC that episode also features the immortal, "Barney, Barney, Barney! Is your mother from Killarney?" I don't think that line had any significance whatever except that it rhymes. (Barney was a Jewish New Yorker, but I'm pretty sure there are Jews in Ireland.)

Golden411 said:
BTW, you made a neutral reference to the Japanese internment camps earlier (completely non-offensive reference) ... and now I will add a thought on that general topic, although I earlier had responded that I wanted to stay away from it

Taking this as a green light to comment further...

Jack Soo was one of the internees, in California and later Utah. Somehow or other (I don't know the exact details) he got out and actually served in the government under the Chinese-sounding name Soo, temporarily abandoning his birth name, Suzuki.

Later he got a part in the musical Flower Drum Song, set in San Francisco's Chinatown. The producers insisted that he use "Soo."

From then on his stage name was set. An interesting factoid is that he was one of the very few singers signed by Motown in the 1960s who was not African-American.

On Barney Miller, Sgt. Yemana was notorious for making terrible coffee. Jack Soo died quite suddenly of cancer in the middle of the series. When the cast came to visit him in the hospital, his last words were, "Must have been the coffee."

lyverbird1 · Jul 29, 2015

CaroLiza_fan said:
As you are a relative new poster, I take it you don't know this.

The "other poster" you refer to, Ziggy, unfortunately died during the summer between the 2013/14 and 2014/15 seasons.

(I can't actually find his memorial thread at the moment, otherwise I would link to it)

CaroLiza_fan

I'm sorry to hear that. No way I could have known.

TheGrandSophy · Aug 10, 2015

Listening to some Patrick Wolf songs. I adore a lot of his music. It made me wonder: have any skaters ever used any of his music?

dorispulaski · Aug 10, 2015

I don't recall any. Lyrics are very new to skating, except for ice dance and exhibitions.

TheGrandSophy · Aug 10, 2015

Thank you, doris. Yes, I thought, if any, it would be an exhibition anyway. He has some songs that I think would be great for ice dance- lush and romantic with unusual instrumentation.

usethis2 · Aug 10, 2015

dorispulaski said:
I detest the term "political correctness." The issue is courtesy. Feelings are facts. A person gets to choose what language offends them. Once you are (I hope politely) informed by a person that they find a given word offensive, it is simple courtesy not to call them by that term. We do not get to choose what offends others; they get to choose. The issue is not politics, but politeness, and the correct, most polite, term to use is the one that makes the whole audience most comfortable, as much as is possible.

I agree with you and never quite understand what the beef is about with so-called "political correctness," except perhaps for the desire to be "politically incorrect."

But I would also note that if you consider the term "politics" broadly, politeness is often an outward manifestation of power relations with embedded (in)equality and thus reflects the politics of the day (today it is equality between the sexes).

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