Random Figure Skating Questions

Stupid question time, now that I've seen the protocols for men at TEB.
Last time, I asked a question on the Skate Canada thread, and Karne not only answered but also told me I should come here if I had more, so here I am.

So, the question about Skate Canada had been about why they had invalidated Hanyu's complete combo, and Karne explained that it was because of a repeat jump (the 2T). Which, ok, I understand.

But rules are rules, so now I'm trying to understand why Murakami's 3Lz1T and Chan's 2T2T combos were awarded points, since they are not valid combos to start with. Murakami got 4.5pts for the 3lz1T and Chan 0.70 for the 2T2T. I don't care how big or how small the numbers are to be honest, I'm just trying to understand why one week a valid combo with one invalid jump is awarded 0 points and two weeks later, completely invalid combos are awarded points.

I'm so sorry if this seems obvious to everyone else, but these new rules are going to make my brain explode :dumb:

Lysambre said:

But rules are rules, so now I'm trying to understand why Murakami's 3Lz1T and Chan's 2T2T combos were awarded points, since they are not valid combos to start with. Murakami got 4.5pts for the 3lz1T and Chan 0.70 for the 2T2T. I don't care how big or how small the numbers are to be honest, I'm just trying to understand why one week a valid combo with one invalid jump is awarded 0 points and two weeks later, completely invalid combos are awarded points.

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The rule about repeating jumps in two different elements in the short program is not new -- it's been around since 1991. How to punish it under IJS has changed a bit, but not much. I've seen novices plan 3T and 3S+2T and get burnt when they double the solo 3T on more than one occasion going back years under IJS, and solo 2T would be a valid (though easy) solo jump under novice rules. It just doesn't happen that often with common senior content. But there was probably some example in the past 10 years when some guy did a 3something-3T combo, tripled an intended 4T, and lost all credit for whichever of those elements came second.

The penalty for doing double or single jumps where triples (or quads) are required in senior SPs has changed this year to become more punitive. Before now, the penalty was automatic -3 GOE and the lower base value for the double or single instead of the required triple. (Or single axel where double or triple is required)

Now the rule is that the jump with not enough revolutions gets no value. That means that a solo single or double jump or single axel in a short program gets no credit for the element.

But for the combination, the requirement is triple+double or triple+triple (or quad-double or quad-triple for senior men).

One double is allowed in the combination. So in a double-double combination, one of the jumps fulfills part of the requirements and gets credit. The other one gets 0 credit. And the GOE is still required to be -3.

Similarly, (at least) one triple is allowed. So in a triple-single combination, the triple gets credit and the single gets no credit. And the GOE is required to be -3.

If a skater does a double, triple, or quad jump in the slot that was supposed to be the combination but falls or otherwise is unable to tack on a second jump of any kind, the element would be called as the executed jump +COMBO, would get credit for the base value of the executed jump, and would get mandatory -3 GOE.

By ignoring the singled jump or the lesser of two doubles in a combination, essentially the same thing is happening. The part of the combination that doesn't fulfill the combination requirements (whether by not existing at all or by having too few revolutions) gets thrown out, but the jump that does meet the requirements gets base value . . . and the GOE must be -3.

So this is more punitive than the rules through last year when the singled or double jump did get base value.

By the way, the GOE rules also changed this year so that for all other serious errors, it is no longer required that the final GOE be negative: if there are enough positive bullet points on the part of the element that was completed, it would be possible to start with +3 or +2, subtract -3 or -2 depending on the type/severity of the error, and end up with 0 or even +1.

But for a short program jump combo with only one valid jump, the GOE is still required to be -3. That's the one remaining mandatory negative.

^ Whew!

Is a skater allowed to throw in a single (listed) jump just as a correographic embellishment, or as part of a step sequence, and have it not fill a jumping box?

Mathman said:

Is a skater allowed to throw in a single (listed) jump just as a correographic embellishment, or as part of a step sequence, and have it not fill a jumping box?

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Not in a short program. They can't even have an unlisted jump of more than a half revolution (walley or inside axel) in the SP step sequence, though they could use an unlisted jump as a transition between elements.

In the senior freeskate, they're now allowed to include jumps of up to two revolutions in the choreographic sequence. Although depending how they set them up and when the choreo sequence is placed in the program, there could be some confusion about what's part of the sequence and what's a regular solo double jump or popped attempted triple.

I have a question that I thought of while watching Mao's FS at COC. How many seconds will the judges allow skaters to stand still for before they start giving out a late start deduction? Last season, I sometimes thought that Evgenia also deserved them, but I wasn't too sure about the limit. Thank you!

randomfan said:

How many seconds will the judges allow skaters to stand still for before they start giving out a late start deduction? Last season, I sometimes thought that Evgenia also deserved them, but I wasn't too sure about the limit. Thank you!

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Last season's Evgenia, really? Wouldn't last season's Tatsuki Machida be a much better example, where he stood still for 20 seconds?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yL9twVtb5E

So I was wondering can you only repeat to types of jumps? Like is it possible to do 2 quad toes (in combo of course), 2 triple axels and 2 triple lutzes in the same program?

Have we ever established why the 3S from Hanyu in his Olympic FS was invalidated?

Oh Canada.............It's me again. You guys have helped me out with Genie and Beatrice Bouchard and more recently, Drake. So, with TEB canceled, I started watching the cooking channel and up comes this cool chick named Nadia G.

She had these cool hipster dudes with her on her show and I just cracked up. At first, I thought she was from Jersey because she wore these crazy heels, had cool nails, and huge earrings. So, what do you guys think of Nadia G. ?? :confused2:

Holy Cow! Here She Is!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=957LkwrKspE

mrrice said:

Oh Canada.............It's me again. You guys have helped me out with Genie and Beatrice Bouchard and more recently, Drake. So, with TEB canceled, I started watching the cooking channel and up comes this cool chick named Nadia G.

She had these cool hipster dudes with her on her show and I just cracked up. At first, I thought she was from Jersey because she wore these crazy heels, had cool nails, and huge earrings. So, what do you guys think of Nadia G. ?? :confused2:

Holy Cow! Here She Is!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=957LkwrKspE

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Oh, I've heard of her! I saw an ad in a magazine for a show she used to have called "Nadia G's B------' Kitchen." Never watched it, though.

In light of TEB being cancelled, I've been wondering how world rankings are calculated, and what they count for. Aren't all a skaters scores from various ISU events added together (or something? I think there may be more to it than that) for world rankings? Will TEB skaters be set back by having no free skate scores from TEB? What do world rankings determine, just skating order at future competitions?

Thanks!

Layback11 said:

Oh, I've heard of her! I saw an ad in a magazine for a show she used to have called "Nadia G's B------' Kitchen." Never watched it, though.

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I just watched an episode of B Kitchen on Youtube. The girl cracks me up. Especially when she calls people "Nerds"

Lexiglass said:

In light of TEB being cancelled, I've been wondering how world rankings are calculated, and what they count for. Aren't all a skaters scores from various ISU events added together (or something? I think there may be more to it than that) for world rankings? Will TEB skaters be set back by having no free skate scores from TEB? What do world rankings determine, just skating order at future competitions?

Thanks!

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Long story short:


In the limited context of the skating microcosm (as opposed to the much bigger macrocosm of the world outside of skating), it would be a pretty big deal (IMO) if TEB skaters earned zero standings/rankings points.

ISU World Standings are one of the criteria that are used in determining who is eligible for GP assignments.
Again, not going to explain the details here. Just the basic concept. (Not the only criterion re GP assignments, by any means. But one of the criteria.)

Thank you! No need to go into any level of detail, but in your opinion, for skaters who did poorly in the short but could have rebounded in the long would it be worse to get no points for TEB or to get points based on their SP ranking?

golden411icecoverage said:

Long story short:

ISU World Standings and ISU Season's World Rankings are not based on scores.

ISU standings/rankings points are based on placements (not scores) at ISU comps and ISU-sanctioned internationals.

Not trying to give all the details here of how the ISU standings/rankings are calculated. Just the basic concept.​

In the limited context of the skating microcosm (as opposed to the much bigger macrocosm of the world outside of skating), it would be a pretty big deal (IMO) if TEB skaters earned zero standings/rankings points.

ISU World Standings are one of the criteria that are used in determining who is eligible for GP assignments.
Again, not going to explain the details here. Just the basic concept. (Not the only criterion re GP assignments, by any means. But one of the criteria.)

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Lexiglass said:

Thank you! No need to go into any level of detail, but in your opinion, for skaters who did poorly in the short but could have rebounded in the long would it be worse to get no points for TEB or to get points based on their SP ranking?

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It is always better to get points. They are just added up, period, so as many as you can get is always always better than none. If you end up overbooked in a category (for example if you do 3 senior B's only 2 count) then they take the top two, they don't average or anything like that.

AntonioThunderhunter said:

So I was wondering can you only repeat to types of jumps? Like is it possible to do 2 quad toes (in combo of course), 2 triple axels and 2 triple lutzes in the same program?

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Nope that would be a Zayak, for the FP you can only repeat 2 quads or 2 triples or one of each so Yuzuru Hanyu repeats the 4T and the 3A, Patrick repeats the 4T and 3Lz and so on, of course doubles you can only do 2 of each but it's separate from the triple/quad rule

Who was the Asian who did some Riverdance moves in a televised competition last Sunday? I think she also did a Triple-Triple and a Triple Axel.

Who (Ice Dance?) skated to Dollywood music at TEB?

Johar said:

Who was the Asian who did some Riverdance moves in a televised competition last Sunday? I think she also did a Triple-Triple and a Triple Axel.

Who (Ice Dance?) skated to Dollywood music at TEB?

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I think you mean Rika Hongo. She does not have a triple axel though.

Bollywood music would be Volosozhar/Trankov.

I have a question regarding Fernandez's SP: aren't the "bullfighting hands" typical of paso doble instead of flamenco (solo man at min 4:00)? Nothing wrong in using them this way in skating, just wondering if someone here is more expert and can enlight me in that regard?