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Thread: Stupid Questions Thread

  1. #226
    Hate fake smiles and horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Program Component Explanations

    Lines and posture would primarily be reflected in the Performance/Execution component, Carriage and Clarity of movement criteria. They wouldn't officially have much impact on other components.

    But if a skater is good in those areas and makes everything they do look good, it will probably have a positive effect on how judges view other aspects of their skating, such as the "balance" portion of Skating Skills.

    And good alignment and stretch can also help the grades of executions -- good positions on spins and jump landings, for example, and spirals in the ladies' Choreo sequence. And many pair moves.

    Skating fans who are also fans of ballet, ballroom dance, gymnastics, etc. (or judges who are also well versed in those fields -- and definitely some TV commentators such as Dick Button) may put a lot of weight on line and posture and consider them some of the most important determinants of what makes "good" skating.

    But a skater who is great at the interaction of blades and ice, but only average or below-average at line and posture, can also score well.

    So you can get disagreements among those who prefer great lines with OK skating (e.g., Sasha Cohen) vs. those who prefer stronger skating and weaker posture and body line (Irina Slutskaya).

    The Skating Skills criteria are:

    Do you have specific questions?
    Thank you so much for your explanation. Would you please give me some example (image/gif or video) about good/bad line body and good/weak posture?

    When some people say a certain skater has a weak body line, I don't understand how much it is different from posture? Or they are the same?

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  4. #229
    Custom Title Antilopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    You are golden! Thank you so much. I can finally get it

  5. #230
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    One caveat. Not only do the PCS components for ice dance have different names and descriptions. They are determined differently.

    ISU Communication 1677 describes the process. We also have a thread going through the document in detail with examples.
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...ules-2011-2012

    In short, ISU 1677 defines 1.0 , 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc. brackets, with lists of qualities that a team should show to qualify for a bracket. A team must only meet the majority of the items to qualify for a given bracket. Note that this process compares teams with a standard, not with each other.

    So if fictional team A&B competes with C&D, one may satisfy items 1,2,3 and 4 of a list of seven items for a component and the other might meet items 2,5,6, and 7. Both would qualify for, say as an example, the 9.0 to 10.0 bracket. Note because they excel at different items, it might not be obvious to a fan that they belong in the same bracket. Each judge decides the bracket for themselves, and then decides whether to give each team 9.0, 9.25, 9.50, 9.75, or 10.0, based on all the items in the bracket, and how well they think each team did.

    I have wondered why singles is not handled the same way.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Note because they excel at different items, it might not be obvious to a fan that they belong in the same bracket. Each judge decides the bracket for themselves, and then decides whether to give each team 9.0, 9.25, 9.50, 9.75, or 10.0, based on all the items in the bracket, and how well they think each team did.

    I have wondered why singles is not handled the same way.
    This sounds a little bit like what I'm working on for singles. I'm trying to come up with criteria, say for SS, that isolates different things that the judges need to look for, and then gives each criteria a certain weight of the total 10.00 score. Using the current criteria as an example:

    A. [1.5] Balance, rhythmic knee action, and precision of foot placement
    B. [2.0] Flow and effortless glide
    C. [2.0] Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps, and turns
    D. [2.0] Varied use of power/energy, speed, and acceleration
    E. [1.5] Multi directional skating
    F. [1.0] Mastery of one foot skating


    I would also break up the increments from 1/4 to 1/10.

    The result would be similar to what you're saying in that two skaters could end up with the same score, by excelling at different items/criteria. (***eta - I realize this is just as true now I guess what there is to gain from doing it this way is that the judging would be more accountable, because the scores would be itemized on the pcs portion of the protocol - A.B.C. etc, - so if a skater who had unsure edges and bad flow got perfect marks on those items, the judge would have to explain it or be found incompetent or something. Plus, casual fans who look up the protocols can readily understand why two skaters who may be very different, still got the same score.)


    While we're on this topic, I wanted to ask a quesiton about flow - I've finally gotten the difference between flow and speed (speed has to do with the rate at which they cover distance across the ice, but flow has to do with the smooth continuity of the body's movement across the ice. You can skate slowly with flow, and there are ways to generate speed that do not have flow).

    Also, gkelly explained very well that sometimes your edges can be a little wobbly and not affect your flow, so my understanding now is that flow is more about how your whole body carries across the ice, rather than the continuous flow of the blade across the ice, is that right? If so, I can see why Dick Button et al feel that things like posture and alignment have a lot to do with good skating skills (it seems like you need to have good posture, alignment, and even weight distribution in order to flow properly)

    Also, does "steady run of the blade" refer to both sureness and continuous flow of the blade on the ice? Thank you (and thank you gkelly for those videos I've been going through them, there are still some things that they don't explain very well, tho).

  7. #232
    Hate fake smiles and horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Can I ask who are the commentators of British Eurosport? I've always like them, much better than NBC but I could not find their names. Is Robin Cousins one of them? Thank you very much.

  8. #233
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I think that if such a PCS scheme as is used for dance were in use for singles that Mao should have won the Olympics FS in Sochi, since judges would not be worried about saving grades for the last group as much.

    And I think that would be a correct result. Also, judges might have thought twice before jacking Adelina's PCS into a significantly higher bracket than at Europeans, since the bracket standard is a little more, if not wholly, objective.

    However, you will definitely get fan arguments, as you do between dance fans, because skaters with equal PCS scores may have different but approximately equal skill sets. But it would be easier to explain PCS results than it is now.

    In any case, you might like to check out ISU Communication 1677.0
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-22-2014 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #234
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Can I ask who are the commentators of British Eurosport? I've always like them, much better than NBC but I could not find their names. Is Robin Cousins one of them? Thank you very much.
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...ommentary-Team

    The usual British Eurosport group are Simon Reed, Chris Howarth, and Nicky Slater.

    BBC has Robin Cousins.

    Eurosport did not have Olympic coverage. If you had the international feed, the commentators were Chris Howarth and Belinda Noonan.

  10. #235
    Hate fake smiles and horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...ommentary-Team

    The usual British Eurosport group are Simon Reed, Chris Howarth, and Nicky Slater.

    BBC has Robin Cousins.

    Eurosport did not have Olympic coverage. If you had the international feed, the commentators were Chris Howarth and Belinda Noonan.
    Thank you so much. I love ESP commentators so much. As for Robin Cousins, would you please give me a link of his commentary? I have never heard him comment before.

  11. #236
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3Xzshdh1Nbo

    BBC coverage of YuNa Kim at 2013 Worlds FS.

    I believe the woman is Joann Conway?

  12. #237
    Hate fake smiles and horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3Xzshdh1Nbo

    BBC coverage of YuNa Kim at 2013 Worlds FS.

    I believe the woman is Joann Conway?
    Thank you so much. After watching BBC coverage clip, I have decided the Eurosport commentators are forever my favourite.

  13. #238
    Hate fake smiles and horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Hello, it's me again. I am asking about "edge". Since I am not an English native speaker, sometimes I get confused by the terms people are using here. Like when someone say "It's not an edge" or "Edge quality"... I find myself lost.

    Please help me with this term, thank you very much.

  14. #239
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    From my post in the Edges and Turns thread in the Reference section:

    Figure skating blades are sharpened with two edges, one toward the inside side of the foot (inside edge) and one toward the outside of the foot (outside edge) with a narrow groove running between the two edges. Most figure skating skills are based on gliding forward or backward on one edge at a time, which produces a curved movement over the ice. These curves, and the curved tracings that the blades carve into the ice itself, are also referred to as “edges.”
    If both sides of the blade are on the ice at the same time, that's called a "flat" and the skate travels in a straight line instead of a curve.

    Figure skating is all about the curves.

  15. #240

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