Random Figure Skating Questions | Page 20 | Golden Skate

Random Figure Skating Questions

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
^A very intriguing question.

I actually feel like Lambiel's jumping is a bit underrated. His hits his opening quad most of the time, iirc, and he was one of the few people to do 4-3-2 (along with Plush and Yagudin). He's also one of the first to attempt a second quad past the halfway mark. Granted, he very rarely hit that quad, and he kind of had no choice since his 3A was among the worst for an elite skater. His jumps weren't exactly stable, but for the era he competed in ('02-10), he was probably third behind Plushenko and Joubert.

Plush is just one of a long line of "Great jumper, great performer, mediocre spinner" among the Russian champions. See: Urmanov, Kulik, Yagudin. Under 6.0, it seems like the North Americans tended to be better spinners (Stojko, Eldridge). I wonder if the Russian school didn't emphasize spins as much? Plush also did the Biellmann when he was younger to compensate. He did improve his spins under COP--the Tosca SP in Torino was probably the best his spins ever looked, and even Dick Button praised them. Nowadays, he probably has his hands full with relearning his jumps after all the surgeries, so it's no wonder his spins have actually regressed. He doesn't seem to be a natural spinner like Lambiel (or perhaps he didn't have a good enough foundation when he was younger).

Among the women: Denise Biellmann was a good spinner and an excellent jumper in her day (first women to do 3Lz). Yuna Kim and Mao Asada have both. Mao probably fits best into what Meoima is describing: She rotates extremely quick in the air, which is how she can do the 3A even though Yuna has more height/distance on her jumps. On the other hand, Miki Ando is a fantastic jumper but a meh spinner.

...So, I don't know what this long rant is saying. :laugh: You can be good at both, but it doesn't look like there's a direct connection. Or, perhaps, it's a matter of training: Swiss chocolate wins over Russian school? I don't know.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Some of the best spinners became best spinners because they trained in public rinks with no room to practice other skills so they did a lot of spinning. Lucinda Ruh chose to excel at spinning because her father told her to make a name for oneself one has to be better than anybody in something. Plushenko might have the body for spinning but his training focused on jumps. He is a great spinner in the air.
 

AsadaFanBoy

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
I've got a question about jump combinations. Why are they a part of programs? They seem to be much easier to pull off than a 3-3 (excluding 3 jump combos with the second jump loop/half loop and third jump salchow).
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
You need the "in between jumps" to get on the correct edge for the next jump in the combination. In your example, the loop is re-setting the correct edge for the salchow.
 

AsadaFanBoy

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
i said excluding 3 jump combos with the loop/half loop in the middle.

in other words, why a 3-2-2/2A-2-2? doesn't seem to be any harder than a 3-2.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
There was one costume that got a costume deduction that was not for pieces falling off. A French skater, I believe it was Mae Berenice Meite, got a deduction for a catsuit that exactly matched her skin tone with a few strategically placed gold swirls. It was several years ago.

Kostomarov lost something on the ice during the 2003 Euro FD and they implied that's why they lost to Denkova Staviski. They've been beating them before at COR and GPF (both held in Russia) but lost to them at Euro & Worlds.

Slutskaya wore a full unitar for her 2006 SP.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
i said excluding 3 jump combos with the loop/half loop in the middle.

in other words, why a 3-2-2/2A-2-2? doesn't seem to be any harder than a 3-2.

My guess as to the reasoning for including them:

At the time the system was being designed, Plushenko was occasionally attempting 4T+3T+3Lo, and both he and others were sometimes landing 4T+3T+2Lo. This was a Wow move that they didn't want to outlaw.

3-3-2 would have been a Wow for a lady, although even rarer.

As long as such an option was available for the best jumpers, the rules had to be written in such a way that average and below-average jumpers could also take advantage of it.

For example, a below-average senior lady jumper with command of easier jumps but nonexistent harder triples might be able to do 3T, 3T+2T, 3S, 3S+2T, 2A, 2A for six of her jumping passes. Something like 2F+2Lo+2Lo would be a useful option for her to earn more points and show off some better jumping skills than a simple 2F+2Lo.
 

erasona

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Hello,

May I ask how audiences know what GPF circuit the skaters are taking? I just want to know who will be in Skate America. :)

Thank you!
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Hello,

May I ask how audiences know what GPF circuit the skaters are taking? I just want to know who will be in Skate America. :)

Thank you!

June 27th!!! That's when we'll know. I'm sure they'll be a thread here discussing who is going where:popcorn:
 

AsadaFanBoy

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Ah, i see. Thanks, gkelly! I remember Arakawa did the 3-3-2 at 2004 Worlds. The 2 at the end looked unnecessary but thanks for explaining & giving great examples. =D
 

ruffledgrouse

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Okay, I have another question. I saw a couple people in a comments section/board/can't quite remember make some jokes about Alaskan figure skating, as if the state had some special infamy for turning out poor skaters. Does it? Which regions are considered to be the weakest and strongest in the US?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Okay, I have another question. I saw a couple people in a comments section/board/can't quite remember make some jokes about Alaskan figure skating, as if the state had some special infamy for turning out poor skaters. Does it? Which regions are considered to be the weakest and strongest in the US?

FWIW, Ashley Wagner began skating at age 5 in Eagle River, Alaska.

(How long she skated there is a separate question. As a military brat, she had to relocate nine times as she grew up.)
 

ruffledgrouse

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Oh, interesting! I didn't know she lived in Alaska. As for the nine moves, military folk are usually transferred every 2-3 years. Google shows Eagle River is a suburb of Anchorage, which makes sense. The only two clubs I could find in AK are in Anchorage and Juneau.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Okay, I have another question. I saw a couple people in a comments section/board/can't quite remember make some jokes about Alaskan figure skating, as if the state had some special infamy for turning out poor skaters. Does it? Which regions are considered to be the weakest and strongest in the US?

The Northwest Pacific region is the smallest region in the US in terms of number of skaters -- but one of the largest in land area since it includes Alaska. That means that traveling to club competitions, for practice competing and to get exposed to what other skaters are doing at the various levels below the top televised seniors is inconvenient and expensive, so skaters from remote areas may have less experience than those in more densely populated areas.

Even if the average quality of skating in the region is comparable to that in larger regions, because the total number of skaters is smaller, the fields at regionals are smaller. Skaters who finish third and fourth at regionals and move on to sectionals will not always be as far above average as those from larger regions. I.e., the average quality of skating at sectionals by skaters from smaller regions will tend to be weaker than that from the larger regions.

Southwest Pacific region is one of the largest and strongest in the country, and Central Pacific somewhere in between. So SWP tends to have the best showing at Pacific Coasts and the most representation at Nationals. But any individual skater from NWP who is especially strong can beat skaters from other regions and move on to Nationals and beyond (including a junior world title for Sydne Vogel).
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Yes - certain Regions are tougher than others. From what I have read, only the Juvenile and Intermediate levels have residency/home ice requirements; I believe these requirements are dropped at Novice and higher.

Remember that only the top 4 from each Region go to Sectionals and the top 4 from Sectionals reach Nationals. As a general rule, the bigger the region (more skaters), the tougher it is to make it to Sectionals. In my region, there are 100+ Juvenile girls all vying to be in the top 4.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Yeah, I've heard of the whole Katarina Witt situation. I think it created a costume rule because of how... revealing... the bottom area was.

She still managed to win two OGM despite her outfit being too sexy for the judges. :laugh: Has there been any costume that's been dinged simply for being too bad?

Simone Koch's costumes were equally revealing if not more. But since she wasn't a gold medal contender they just didn't care. Sometimes with Simone you just wish she'd have gone out in a swimsuit, there was hardly anything covering the bare minimum of her pelvic area. Plus she was doing Bielmanns!!! Sort of like Witt's Euros SP costume.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
This was way before my time, so maybe I'm just clueless, but looking at the videos... I didn't get what was so wonderful about Manley's performance? Didn't she land the same number of triples as Witt? (She has 3Lz, but no jump combo, while Witt at least had 3T-2T). Manley's skate also looks very frenetic and dated, while Witt's still looked like a lovely performance even if it technically was quite meh. Not to mention, Manley won the LP--it just wasn't enough to win overall. If anybody was robbed in the LP, it was Midori Ito.

Yep, Sandpiper, I still cannot understand what Manley did better than Ito...... Ito should have won the free skate. No question. Manley's lines were just as undeveloped as Ito's. Manley was such a whiner. She never saw a world podium before Calgary and then she thinks she lost the gold medal due to judging shenanigans? J Sale took a page out of the whining book of Manley. uggh. Canadians.
 
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