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Thread: Stupid Questions Thread

  1. #511
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It's OK to ask. It's not OK to answer if you don't give a reference to back it up. So I couldn't tell you who Tara and Evan are dating, even if I knew.

  2. #512
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    I think this question may not be ok to ask on this forum and if it is delete away and I apologize. But I am just so curious ...... are Tara and Evan a couple?
    http://instagram.com/p/qVWWFXMoi3/
    I don't know either, and I wouldn't like to speculate.

    But, what I can say is that is an absolutely beautiful photo of them!


    While I'm in this thread, can I ask a question about a couple of things that have been puzzling me for a while.

    Last month, I finally got round to watching the programme that the BBC made to mark the 30th anniversary of Torvill and Dean's Gold in the Ice Dance at the Sarajevo Olympics.

    I wasn't born until 1985. And although I had seen clips of their "Boléro" FD routine many times over the years, this was the first time I had seen it in its entirity.

    But, what I found most interesting in the programme are a couple of stories about the routine that Chris Dean revealed that I had never heard before.


    As you know, Ravel's "Boléro" is a very long piece of music (over 15 minutes). And Chris was explaining how difficult it was to cut it down to the required length (4m 10s), but still be able to get the full effect of the story. In the end, the best they could do was 4m 28s, which was still 18 seconds too long.

    The rules stated that the clock started when the skating starts. So, they interpreted this as meaning that, even if the music had already started, the clock wouldn't start until their blades touched the ice. Hence, they came up with the strange kneeling down bit at the start of the routine.


    The other story was that, during the warm-up, Chris went over to the spot where they were going to start their routine, and deliberately scuffed up the ice so that there would be more grip. And this could clearly be seen on the TV coverage, underneath the graphic listing who was going to be skating in that group.


    What I want to know is would they be able to get away with these actions nowadays?


    For the music, I always assumed that the clock started when the music started. So, I take it that the wording of the rule was changed after Sarajevo so that this loophole can no longer be exploited.

    But it is the kneeling that is confusing me. Having grown up only watching skating since the current system came in, I would have thought that kneeling on the ice like this would have been classed as a fall, and would have led to them being scored down.

    So, I cannot understand how they managed to get a "perfect score"?

    As for the scuffing up the ice, I would have thought that there would have been some sort of rule to prevent people "tampering with the pitch", so to speak.

    Like, in motorbike racing, Valentino Rossi and Max Biaggi went sent to the back of the grid after their teams brushed sand off their grid slots the night before the 2004 Qatar Grand Prix.

    So, is what Chris did during the Warm-Up in Sarajevo not the same?


    There may have been plenty of questions about the rules since this thread was started, but I bet nobody was expecting a question about the rules as they were 30 years ago!

    CaroLiza_fan

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by aims View Post
    Another stupid question.
    Obviously there's no reason (and even risky) for ice dancers to even attempt jumps elements, but I'm wondering if they can do them if they tried, maybe even do them just for fun during practices. If so, has anyone ever seen any of them do them? (just thinking how awesome it'll be to see someone like Meryl or Charlie do a loop, an Axel or others)
    Here's Elena Ilinykh landing a cheated double axel at 9 years of age. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjp3YLIjV7I

    I think now most ice dancers would been working on at least doubles before they completely switched over to dance, some even triples. Even Nikolai Morozov started out as a singles skater and trained until age 17 with VIktor Kudriavtsev, switching to dance because he was not as good as his younger training mate, Ilia Kulik. So Morozov likely would have had most of his triples.

    On the other hand, there are ice dancers like Evgeny Platov who admitted to focusing on dance almost immediately after he started skating, because he wasn't able to learn the single flip.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    I think this question may not be ok to ask on this forum and if it is delete away and I apologize. But I am just so curious ...... are Tara and Evan a couple?
    http://instagram.com/p/qVWWFXMoi3/
    Evidently, he is visiting her at her beach home in S.C, but the pic does look like a more than two friends kind of pose. Is he still living with Vera Wang? Inquiring minds want to know.:big grin:


    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...sure-this-week

  5. #515
    Custom Title gallavich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Evidently, he is visiting her at her beach home in S.C, but the pic does look like a more than two friends kind of pose. Is he still living with Vera Wang? Inquiring minds want to know.:big grin:


    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...sure-this-week
    I'm 99.5% sure they are not a couple. Tara has also posted photos of herself cuddling in bed with Johnny...just saying.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    I always assumed that the clock started when the music started. So, I take it that the wording of the rule was changed after Sarajevo so that this loophole can no longer be exploited.
    The rule did change. But now the timing starts when the skater begins to move (and ends when they come to a complete stop at the end of the program). So if they choose an opening pose in which they can stand completely still for a few seconds, they can get away with music cut a little longer than the allowed time.

    But it is the kneeling that is confusing me. Having grown up only watching skating since the current system came in, I would have thought that kneeling on the ice like this would have been classed as a fall, and would have led to them being scored down.
    Under the current rules,

    For singles and pairs, lying on the ice and prolonged and/or stationary kneeling on both knees are considered illegal.

    For ice dance, kneeling or sliding on two knees or sitting on the ice is not allowed and will be considered a fall.

    Either way there would be a deduction; it's just a question of whether it's called an illegal element deduction or a fall deduction.

    As for the scuffing up the ice, I would have thought that there would have been some sort of rule to prevent people "tampering with the pitch", so to speak.

    Like, in motorbike racing, Valentino Rossi and Max Biaggi went sent to the back of the grid after their teams brushed sand off their grid slots the night before the 2004 Qatar Grand Prix.

    So, is what Chris did during the Warm-Up in Sarajevo not the same?
    I guess it depends exactly what he did to the ice.

    If there were a bump on the ice (e.g., caused by condensation drips), a skater might kick it off with their blade. That would actually be improving the quality of the ice for themselves and their competitors, so no one would object.

    Scuffing up the ice with the side of the blade is pretty much what happens during a T stop or hockey stop or snowplow stop, etc., and also some novelty skidding moves. Most skaters will do a skidded stop of some sort when they take their starting position, and many do one or more such moves within the program or to come to a complete stop at the end. They might also do them during the warmup as part of warming up. It makes the ice a bit less slick in that spot, but skaters probably won't notice skating through when they've glided through a couple-inch-wide scrape compared to pristine ice on either side. Those scrapes are a normal part of what happens to the ice when people are skating on it, why the ice is less slick at the end of a group than at the beginning. So doing it on purpose at a specific spot on the ice wouldn't be harming the ice any more than practicing a choreographed stop or stopping short to avoid a collision on a warmup.

    Putting holes (or in the case of ice dance, more likely deep ruts) in the ice would be a different story, but even that is something that happens normally in the process of doing toe jumps, toe steps, deep edges, etc. Still, if someone were observed kicking the ice to make a hole on purpose during the warmup, the referee might need to do something about it. I'm not familiar with a specific rule to deal with such behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
    On the other hand, there are ice dancers like Evgeny Platov who admitted to focusing on dance almost immediately after he started skating, because he wasn't able to learn the single flip.
    Thanks. I knew Platov had started out as an ice dancer, but I didn't realize he had tried and failed to learn single jumps first.

    Dean also started with ice dance right from the beginning.

  7. #517
    Tripping on the Podium
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    http://instagram.com/p/qK2r9DMooX/

    Evan's got skinnier legs than I imagined.

  8. #518
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Thank you for the reply, gkelly.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    The rule did change. But now the timing starts when the skater begins to move (and ends when they come to a complete stop at the end of the program). So if they choose an opening pose in which they can stand completely still for a few seconds, they can get away with music cut a little longer than the allowed time.
    Ah. So, there is still a bit of lee-way allowed, just not as much.

    I have to be honest, I thought that second or so we have nowadays was just the natural delay it takes for the human brain to react to hearing the music.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Under the current rules,

    For singles and pairs, lying on the ice and prolonged and/or stationary kneeling on both knees are considered illegal.

    For ice dance, kneeling or sliding on two knees or sitting on the ice is not allowed and will be considered a fall.

    Either way there would be a deduction; it's just a question of whether it's called an illegal element deduction or a fall deduction.
    So I was right in thinking that the kneeling would be considered as a fall under the current rules.

    By extension, I take it kneeling was perfectly legal back then. Or, at least, the rule-makers hadn't realised that they would need to say anything in the rules about it!

    So, does anybody know when the rule came in? Was it an immediate reaction, or something that was introduced later on (say, when IJS came in)?

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I guess it depends exactly what he did to the ice.

    ...
    As for Chris scuffing the ice, it was like a "normal-speed" version of Brian Joubert's party trick of running on the spot. It wasn't anything as extreme as attempting to put a hole in the ice.

    (I had a look through YouTube earlier but, unsurprisingly, there are no videos of the warm-up. The only videos from the FD are of the actual performances. That said, I was pleasantly surprised at just how many of the performances were there!)

    Thank you again

    CaroLiza_fan

  9. #519
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Aww -- Tara looks so happy and at peace with the world these days. Good for her. (I don't now if we can credit Evan, though. )

  10. #520
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    Last time I asked about ballet related programs, and gkelly recommended several great programs. Very belated thanks, gkelly!

    Today I came across Alena Leonova's 2010-11 Witch program, and it was very..... sigh... I'm sighing because back then I saw her practice video of that program with her choreographer and the choreographer's version was far more interesting and potentially great. That made me think that maybe there are lots of choreographers who feel terrible about their actual productions that are far from their initial idea.
    Anyway, so, do you know any witch themed programs done by singles that are actually executed great?

  11. #521
    On the Ice Sequinedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Evidently, he is visiting her at her beach home in S.C, but the pic does look like a more than two friends kind of pose. Is he still living with Vera Wang? Inquiring minds want to know.:big grin:


    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...sure-this-week
    He never lived with Vera, that was made up by the media.

    This is his place. instagram.com/p/k2S7JmLQS7/

    He also discussed this on the Katie Couric show back in fall of 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcaiz8VFNMc

    As far as Tara and Evan, I doubt it because he tends to take pictures like this often with his female friends. And she was being cozy with Brandon McMillian the "lucky dog" guy from CBS. instagram.com/p/qDhA9-MohD/
    instagram.com/p/pxj-8uMohL/

    But I'm not going to speculate.

  12. #522
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    Is it confirmed that 15/16 Short Dance is Ravensburger Waltz or these are just rumours? I heard about that but can't find a confirmation.

  13. #523
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catchie View Post
    Is it confirmed that 15/16 Short Dance is Ravensburger Waltz or these are just rumours? I heard about that but can't find a confirmation.
    Yes, the ISU has announced that Ravensburger Waltz is the 2015/16 SD pattern dance for Seniors. See Part III of ISU Communication No. 1875.

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Yes, the ISU has announced that Ravensburger Waltz is the 2015/16 SD pattern dance for Seniors. See Part III of ISU Communication No. 1875.
    Thank you! : ))

  15. #525
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    learning how to score things here...

    looking at sochi ladies lp scorecard
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ow..._FS_Scores.pdf

    why are there 'x's next to some of the base value points? also, why does 2A = 3.63bv when my notes say 3.3? what is the info column used for?

    aside from these immediate questions, any links which may help me on my larger task of understanding scoring would be appreciated.


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