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Thread: Stupid Questions Thread

  1. #526
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManLady View Post
    learning how to score things here...

    looking at sochi ladies lp scorecard
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ow..._FS_Scores.pdf

    why are there 'x's next to some of the base value points? also, why does 2A = 3.63bv when my notes say 3.3? what is the info column used for?

    aside from these immediate questions, any links which may help me on my larger task of understanding scoring would be appreciated.

    Per the legend at the bottom of the protocols:

    x Credit for highlight distribution, base value multiplied by 1.1

    So if I am not mistaken, an "x" signifies that the element was performed in the second half of the program, and earned 1.1 x the BV.

    1.1 x 3.3 = 3.63

    The info column is used for:
    e Take-off edge not correct or clean
    < Under-rotated jump
    << Downgraded jump

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManLady View Post
    learning how to score things here...

    looking at sochi ladies lp scorecard
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ow..._FS_Scores.pdf

    why are there 'x's next to some of the base value points? also, why does 2A = 3.63bv when my notes say 3.3? what is the info column used for?

    aside from these immediate questions, any links which may help me on my larger task of understanding scoring would be appreciated.

    x next to the BV means that it is in the 2nd half of the program so the base value is multiplied by 1.1, there's a 10% bonus due to fatigue, some skaters use this to their advantage and pack their jumps in the second half for those extra points (notably Yuzuru Hanyu)

    Here's an ISU video series that helped me understand skating skills (a program component) a lot better many years ago, I still find it useful today
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu1T...3B645BA5A421EF

  3. #528
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    awesome... thanks, krunchy and golden

  4. #529
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catchie View Post
    Is it confirmed that 15/16 Short Dance is Ravensburger Waltz or these are just rumours? I heard about that but can't find a confirmation.
    The ISU website is partially back up, so now I can quote from Page 6 of the ISU Communication:

    The Ice Dance Technical Committee adopted that, for season 2015/16, among the specific Required Elements to be included into composition of the Short Dance, there will be:

    Senior:
    Pattern Dance Element(s) taken from Pattern Dance Ravensburger Waltz

    Junior:
    Pattern Dance Elements taken from Pattern Dance Starlight Waltz

    The Pattern Dance Elements must be skated on the Waltz Rhythm, in the style of the Waltz. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance:
     Senior: Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. 66 measures of 3 beats per minute or 198 beats per minute,
     Junior: Starlight Waltz, i.e. 58 measures of 3 beats or 174 beats per minute,
    plus or minus 2 beats per minute.

    http://static-isu.labelcom.ch/media/...gress-2014.pdf (Jun 24)

  5. #530
    missing Mao & Yuna satine94's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm back for a second question

    Why is it that the component factor for women's sp & fs are 0.80 & 1.60, but the men's are 1.00 & 2.00?

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by satine94 View Post
    Ok, I'm back for a second question

    Why is it that the component factor for women's sp & fs are 0.80 & 1.60, but the men's are 1.00 & 2.00?
    I think that's because men's technical score are usually way higher than for women... this way the pcs have more or less the same impact on the final score, while if it was the same it would have way too much influences in the ladies' event or way too little in the men's event

  7. #532
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Component factoring
    The panel's points for each Program Component are multiplied by a factor depending on the event. For singles and pair skating, the factor is uniform for all components:

    Short program
    Men 1.0
    Ladies 0.8

    Freeskate
    Men 2.0
    Ladies. 1.6

    If I'm reading this correct the men have a 20% advantage in the Sp and a 40% in the final PCS score due to factoring.

  8. #533
    missing Mao & Yuna satine94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Component factoring
    The panel's points for each Program Component are multiplied by a factor depending on the event. For singles and pair skating, the factor is uniform for all components:

    Short program Free skating
    Men 1.0 2.0
    Ladies 0.8 1.6

    If I'm reading this correct the men have a 20% advantage in the Sp and a 40% in the final PCS score due to factoring.
    Yes that's how I was reading it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jace93 View Post
    I think that's because men's technical score are usually way higher than for women... this way the pcs have more or less the same impact on the final score, while if it was the same it would have way too much influences in the ladies' event or way too little in the men's event
    I guess I can wrap my head around that, but..... the men do perform more difficult elements in their programs compared to women. They don't have a more superior range of choreo, interpretation, etc. yet they get higher points for it

    I can understand that's to balance out the scores, but if men do in fact focus more heavily on the TES, then why not reflect that in the breakdown of their scores? (Personally, I would prefer more focus on artistry development than extensive jump layouts in men's skating, but if that's how their programs are.... )

    OR, if balance is such a concern, instead of raising men's component factor, why not lower their BVs? (haha okay, I admit that would never happen just thinking)

    I guess it just rubs me the wrong way that a man and woman could both deliver the same quality choreo, ss, etc., but he'd be getting more points than her no matter what

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by satine94 View Post
    Yes that's how I was reading it too.



    I guess I can wrap my head around that, but..... the men do perform more difficult elements in their programs compared to women. They don't have a more superior range of choreo, interpretation, etc. yet they get higher points for it

    I can understand that's to balance out the scores, but if men do in fact focus more heavily on the TES, then why not reflect that in the breakdown of their scores? (Personally, I would prefer more focus on artistry development than extensive jump layouts in men's skating, but if that's how their programs are.... )

    OR, if balance is such a concern, instead of raising men's component factor, why not lower their BVs? (haha okay, I admit that would never happen just thinking)

    I guess it just rubs me the wrong way that a man and woman could both deliver the same quality choreo, ss, etc., but he'd be getting more points than her no matter what
    that's why exist protocols... there you can see the actual vote that the judges have given to the performance... also it's not as simple as men focus more heavily on tes, men simply can land more difficult jumps: while 3a are incredibly difficult for ladies and quadruple nearly impossible, for mens a 3a is like a basic element and quad are equivalent to a difficul 3-3 for a woman...

  10. #535
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    This is the example that I think of to understand the PCSs factoring. Lets's say you are going for the world championship and you get straight 9.0's across the board for your program component scores. That's 9 x 5 = 45 PCS, unfactored. Here are the total TES and factored PCSs that you are aiming at:

    Men's SP: TES = 45; PCS = 45x1 = 45; Total segment score = 45+45 = 90.
    Men's LP: TES = 90; PSC = 45x2 = 90; Total segment score = 90+90 = 180.

    Grand Total: 90+180 = 270. You win!

    Ladies SP: TES = 36; PCS = 45x.8 = 36; Total segment score = 36+36 = 72.
    Ladies LP: TES = 72; PCS = 45x1.6 = 72; Total segment score = 72+72 = 144.

    Grand total = 72+144 = 216. You win!

  11. #536
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    If I'm reading this correct the men have a 20% advantage in the Sp and a 40% in the final PCS score due to factoring.
    Something like that. Actually, the assumption is that men's TES scores will be, on the average, 25% higher than ladies' in both the short program and the long.

    1.00/.80 = 1.25
    2.00/1.60 = 1.25

  12. #537
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    http://instagram.com/p/qalJzGir_e/

    who's next to adam rippon? not ashley, the other one

  13. #538
    Footwork Diva IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsadaFanBoy View Post
    http://instagram.com/p/qalJzGir_e/

    who's next to adam rippon? not ashley, the other one
    That's Timothy LeBlanc

    http://www.timothyleblanc.net/

  14. #539
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    wow, thanks icyedges!

  15. #540
    missing Mao & Yuna satine94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jace93 View Post
    that's why exist protocols... there you can see the actual vote that the judges have given to the performance... also it's not as simple as men focus more heavily on tes, men simply can land more difficult jumps: while 3a are incredibly difficult for ladies and quadruple nearly impossible, for mens a 3a is like a basic element and quad are equivalent to a difficul 3-3 for a woman...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This is the example that I think of to understand the PCSs factoring. Lets's say you are going for the world championship and you get straight 9.0's across the board for your program component scores. That's 9 x 5 = 45 PCS, unfactored. Here are the total TES and factored PCSs that you are aiming at:

    Men's SP: TES = 45; PCS = 45x1 = 45; Total segment score = 45+45 = 90.
    Men's LP: TES = 90; PSC = 45x2 = 90; Total segment score = 90+90 = 180.

    Grand Total: 90+180 = 270. You win!

    Ladies SP: TES = 36; PCS = 45x.8 = 36; Total segment score = 36+36 = 72.
    Ladies LP: TES = 72; PCS = 45x1.6 = 72; Total segment score = 72+72 = 144.

    Grand total = 72+144 = 216. You win!
    Thank you jace93 & mathman for trying to help me with this. Obviously I'm not completely knowledgeable of the logic behind the factoring, otherwise I wouldn't be asking about it in the stupid questions thread. I can comprehend the gist of the system though.

    I understand that the basic motive for the component factor is to roughly equate it to the average TES by discipline. But I am not quite sure how to properly explain the displeasure I still have towards this mathematical system..

    I had come up with three different example scenarios to try and convey my disgruntled feelings towards this, but since I am not too gifted with words they all seemed unfortunately ransacked.

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