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Thread: Stupid Questions Thread

  1. #541
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    The Pattern Dance Elements must be skated on the Waltz Rhythm, in the style of the Waltz. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance:
     Senior: Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. 66 measures of 3 beats per minute or 198 beats per minute,
     Junior: Starlight Waltz, i.e. 58 measures of 3 beats or 174 beats per minute, plus or minus 2 beats per minute. [/I][/INDENT]
    I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

    I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc?

  2. #542
    On the Ice Sequinedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

    I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc?

    I looked it up and took a screen shot of it. this is from USFigureskating.org 's rulebook to clarify. I also checked with a good friend that was a champ Sr. Ice Dancer, she says this to be correct. Hope this helps!

    http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/se...c750f.png.html

  3. #543
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

    I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc?
    I think the ISU wording is clumsy .... leading to ambiguous meaning.

    Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. 66 measures of 3 beats per minute or 198 beats per minute
    I think the ISU means:
    Per minute: 66 measures of 3 beats, which equals 198 beats

    And not:
    3 beats per minute for 66 measures

    But I understand why it looks confusing, skatedreamer.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    BTW, I don't think the ISU understands what "i.e." means.
    Incorrect usage, IMO.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

    I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc?
    Think of it like:

    "Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. (66 measures of 3) beats per minute or 198 beats per minute "

    i.e. (66 x 3) beats per minute

  5. #545
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    how do i apply Scale of Values on judges scores in order to get the overall GOE which is added to BV?

    I have ISU Comm 1861 which I believe is most current SoV, just don't know how to use it... thanks

  6. #546
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
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    @golden411/@Sequinedream -- thanks! The USFSA screenshot seems much clearer and I agree that the ISU wording is clumsy. If they can get rid of the first "per minute" in the sentence re: Ravensburger, it would make more sense. "66 measures of 3 beats" eliminates the ambiguity.

    Presumably, most people will just take it as an error and interpret it per the USFSA instead of getting all cross-eyed and academic about it as I did. Still, it was kind of fun imagining a waltz of 3 beats per minute, which would be better suited to a hippo or maybe a brontosaurus instead of a couple of skaters.

    New question, yet again about beats per minute: if the BPM has to do with the tempo of the waltz, will someone on the judging panel be assigned to make sure that the BPM for each couple's piece meets the requirements? It sounds crazy, but will someone be there actually counting beats w/ a metronome or something?

    I'm off to look up the correct usage for "i.e." vs. "e.g." That seems a lot safer...

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    New question, yet again about beats per minute: if the BPM has to do with the tempo of the waltz, will someone on the judging panel be assigned to make sure that the BPM for each couple's piece meets the requirements? It sounds crazy, but will someone be there actually counting beats w/ a metronome or something?
    The referee is responsible, but I don't know what means they use to measure the tempo.

    See Ice Dancing - Who's Responsible for Deductions for Short Dance and Free Dance?

    Music – violation of tempo specifications – Short Dance – according to Rule 609 paragraph 1.c) (iii): the music must be selected in accordance with the specified tempo, when applicable.
    -1.0 point deduction
    Referee

  8. #548
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satine94 View Post
    I understand that the basic motive for the component factor is to roughly equate it to the average TES by discipline. But I am not quite sure how to properly explain the displeasure I still have towards this mathematical system..

    I had come up with three different example scenarios to try and convey my disgruntled feelings towards this, but since I am not too gifted with words they all seemed unfortunately ransacked.
    I know what you mean! For instance, if the ladies had gotten full credit for PCS just like the men, then at the 2013 world championship Yuna Kim would have finished 5th in men's with 244.28 points. Just behind Hanyu, 244.99.

    At 2014 worlds Mao Asada would have finished 6th in men's with 245.84.

    By the way, in the SP Mao's TES was 44.81 and with men's factoring her PCSs would have been exactly 44.81, too. Just like the ISU hoped would happen. Except Mao is a lady. Oh well. (With 89.62 points Mao would have come in third in mens in that segment.)

  9. #549
    Footwork Queen IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    @golden411/@Sequinedream -- thanks! The USFSA screenshot seems much clearer and I agree that the ISU wording is clumsy. If they can get rid of the first "per minute" in the sentence re: Ravensburger, it would make more sense. "66 measures of 3 beats" eliminates the ambiguity.

    Presumably, most people will just take it as an error and interpret it per the USFSA instead of getting all cross-eyed and academic about it as I did. Still, it was kind of fun imagining a waltz of 3 beats per minute, which would be better suited to a hippo or maybe a brontosaurus instead of a couple of skaters.

    New question, yet again about beats per minute: if the BPM has to do with the tempo of the waltz, will someone on the judging panel be assigned to make sure that the BPM for each couple's piece meets the requirements? It sounds crazy, but will someone be there actually counting beats w/ a metronome or something?

    I'm off to look up the correct usage for "i.e." vs. "e.g." That seems a lot safer...
    yes the ISU judges approve the music!

  10. #550
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManLady View Post
    ok so how do i apply Scale of Values on judges scores in order to get the overall GOE which is added to BV?

    I have ISU Comm 1861 which I believe is most current SoV, just don't know how to use it
    In Communication 1861, go down the list until you come to the element you want. Let's say an Upright Spin level 3 (USp3). There is a row of 9 numbers (some are blznk):

    1.5 1.0 0.5 1.9 blank blank -0.3 -0.6 -0.9

    The three numbers in bold are the base value for the elemnt, 70% of thee base value, and 50% of the base value. The skater only gets 70% or 50% of base value for various errors. (For jumps 70% for under-rotation marked "<" and I think the 50% is for a wrong-edge takeoff on a flip or Lutz. i am not sure what spin errors receive this kind of reduction of base value.)

    The three numbers on the left are how many points the skater gets for +3, +2, and +1 GOE. The three numbers on the right are the numbers of pints the skater gets for -1, -2, and -3 GOE, respectively.

    So for instance if the judge gives a -2, that is automativally converted by the computer into -0.6 points. After discarding highest and lowest, the remaining seven numbers are averaged, and that's the GOE for that element that you see in the protocol.
    Last edited by Mathman; 07-14-2014 at 05:28 PM.

  11. #551
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Can anyone tell me the best finish a host pick has ever had at a GP event? Just curious.

  12. #552
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Kaetlyn Osmond won 2012 Skate Canada as a host pick in her Senior GP debut after finishing tenth at Jr.Worlds the previous season, Afair. Others may have done as well, but you can't get better than first

    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012655.htm

  13. #553
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    Maybe not stupid, but is Brandon Mroz still competing?

  14. #554
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Kaetlyn Osmond won 2012 Skate Canada as a host pick in her Senior GP debut after finishing tenth at Jr.Worlds the previous season, Afair. Others may have done as well, but you can't get better than first

    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012655.htm

    Follow up ???

    Was it an early host pick like Gracie Gold's @ SA or was it later like the ones were learning about now?

  15. #555
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Maybe not stupid, but is Brandon Mroz still competing?
    Not stupid. Don't know whether Mroz will continue to compete. FWIW:

    At 2014 Nats, Mroz placed 9th overall (9th SP; 10th FS). He was the third alternate for 2014 Four Continents.
    Jan 10 Mroz interview video from 2014 Nats (IceNetwork "social scene" fluff with Michael Buckley)

    Apr 23 Instagram vid of @brandomroz [sic] quad loop in slo-mo:
    http://instagram.com/p/nIkCwRhLlF/ (which has 221 likes )

    Tom Z's Facebook page has new posts all the time with photos and videos of Mroz (incl. demos), so they apparently still work closely together.

    Mroz put on his coaching hat at the recent Air Force Academy skating camp led by TZ. (Also coaching at the camp were other TZ skaters: Aaron, Nagasu, Flatt, etc.)
    A few examples of nice mini-videos and photos of Mroz in coaching mode. A few examples:

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